Which Is Older Kannada Or Tamil

When one tries to trace the real history of India, one has to tread carefully and doubly careful in the use of terms about the various ancient Kingdoms and languages of India.

Unlike the other countries of the world our history goes back to Millions of years.

Sathavahanas Dynasty.jpg Sathavahana Dynasty LLocation. Image credit. “SatavahanaMap”. Licensed under Public Domain via Commons – https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg#/media/File:SatavahanaMap.jpg

While unravelling them,based on Archeology, references in the Indian Epics,Puranas and Indian literature, one finds it nearly impossible to determine which preced the other, say for instance Tami or Kannada.

I have, in my article, Karnataka 2 Million years Old Rama’s Brother in law in Karnataka, I had inadvertently slipped a word that,

‘before the advent of the Sathavahanas, Karnataka was ruled by North Indian Kings and Tamil Kings”

I received a comment,, which I am reproducing below.

“Well Mr. Ramanan, with due regards to your article, there is no history to suggest that Karnataka was ruled by Tamil rulers, before Satavahanas. Although the two languages owe a lot to Brahmi script and according to latest findings, Kannada speaking population was widely spread in south, central, and deccan India. Professor Iravatham mahadevan’s recent findings show that Tamil borrowed from old Kannada and not the other way round.
The impact of kingdoms of Karnataka origin have been felt over other parts of India also. The Chindaka Nagas of central India, Gangas of Kalinga (Odisha),[1] Rashtrakutas of Manyakheta,[2] Chalukyas of Vengi,[3] Yadava Dynasty of Devagiri were all of Kannada origin[4] who later took to encouraging local languages. The Senas of Bengal, the Solankis of Gujarat etc.’

In such a situation, I should have simple left saying nothing at all.

For the atmosphere in India has been so vitiated on the basis of langauge and territories that even a slight mention, raises one’s hackles.

The Divide and Rule Policy started by the British about 300 years ago still lingers , currently being fueled by the politicians who have no idea of our Past History and our traditions.

Having written about the early histories of Tamil in detail and a couple of Posts on the antiquity of Kannada,I would like to tread carefully, though evidence is available on these subjects.

When I take up the ancient history of the other areas, bengal, Maharashtra, Gujarat, Central India, there might me surprises in store.

I will be refrained in my choice of description as my site might be used to wrangle over which langauge or Kings were  more ancient.

The purpose of my Blog is to bring out the history and achievements of Sanatana Dharma, which has been distorted and misinformation had been spread about it.

By writing on the subjects I have mentioned here, I might be sidetracked.

One thing is certain.

We have a hoary past with Sanskrit and Sanatana Dharma as the Pillars.

Other languages like Tamil, Kannada have a hand in it, not to forget Telugu,the Godavari Valley has a rich ,ancient History.

While much evidence has been found on Tamil, about its antiquity relatively it is less in the other languages.

Another point is that the Tamil Kingdom was located in Lemuria.

They seem to have developed a culture on their own, they were also followers of Sanatana Dharma.

History of Karanataka and Tamil are gleaned only from respective literaray works of these languages.

For Karnataka, the past before Chandra Gupta Maurya is hazy, while Tamil has literary references in the form of Sangam literature.

Karnataka was not called as such, thanks to linguistic division of states, and it was under the Mauryan Empire.

And Chanra Gupra Mauraya breathed his last near Sravanabelagola in 230 BC.

However after the death of Chandra Gupta, Karnataka resisted the Mauryan domination.

The Tamils were allies of Chandra Gupta .

The Sathavahanas , the first recorded Dynasty,rose after Chandra Gupta.

Interesting point is that the Sathavahanas were ruling from Amravathi, , AP, now Capital of Andhra!

‘The Sātavāhana Empire was an Indian dynasty based from Dharanikota and Amaravati in Andhra Pradesh as well as Junnar(Pune) and Prathisthan (Paithan) in Maharashtra.The territory of the empire covered much of India from 230 BCE onward. Although there is some controversy about when the dynasty came to an end, the most liberal estimates suggest that it lasted about 450 years, until around 220 CE. The Satavahanas are credited for establishing peace in the country, resisting the onslaught of foreigners after the decline of the Mauryan Empire.’

The Sātavāhanas were vassals to the Mauryan dynasty until the decline of the latter. They are known for their patronage ofHinduism. The Sātavāhanas were early issuers of Indian state coinage struck with images of their rulers. They formed a cultural bridge and played a vital role in trade and the transfer of ideas and culture to and from the Indo-Gangetic Plain to the southern tip of India.

They had to compete with the Shungas and then the Kanvas of Magadha to establish their rule. Later, they played a crucial role to protect a huge part of India against foreign invaders like the Sakas, Yavanas and Pahlavas. In particular their struggles with theWestern Kshatrapas went on for a long time. The great rulers of the Satavahana Dynasty Gautamiputra Satakarni and Sri Yajna Sātakarni were able to defeat the foreign invaders like the Western Kshatrapas and stop their expansion. In the 3rd century CE the empire was split into smaller states. According to ancient Sangam literature the Satavahana rulers were allied with the Tamilrulers of the Chera dynasty, Chola dynasty and Pandyan Dynasty to defeat the foreign invaders like the Scythians…

‘The name Karnataka is derived from “Karunadu” which means Loftyland (High plateau), derived from the community’s location on the Deccan Plain. The name can also mean “Land of black soil” (Kari – Black; Nadu – Area or Region) in Kannada. The history of Karnataka goes back to epics “Ramayana” and “Mahabharatha”. The capital of “vaali” and “Sugriva” of the epic, Ramayana, is said to be Hampi. Karnataka finds its mention in Mahabharatha in the form of “Karnata Desha”. In olden times the region was also called “Kuntala Rajya”.[1] Karnataka was also part of the Dakshinapatha (southern region) which finds its mention in many Indian epics. Vatapi, associated with sage Agastya is obviously Badami in Bijapur district.[2] Karnataka is situated on the western edge of theDeccan plateau and has for its neighbours Maharashtra and Goa on the north, Andhra Pradesh on east, Tamil Nadu and Kerala on the south. On the west it opens out on the Arabian sea.’

In the case of Tamils, Tamil Kings were referred to during the Damayanthi Swayamvara, Sita and Draupadi Swayamvara apart from the fact that Lord Krishna married  Pandyan Princess, had a daughter Pandiah, Parashuarama, Arjuna and Sahadeva had been visiting Tamil areas.

Lord Krishna was an attendee to the Tamil Sangam.

Please refer my post on these subjects.

‘The Pandyas were one of the three ancient Tamil dynasties (Chola and Chera being the other two) who ruled the Tamil country from pre-historic times until the end of the 15th century. They ruled initially from Korkai, a sea port on the southernmost tip of the Indian peninsula, and in later times moved to Madurai. Pandyas are mentioned inSangam Literature (c. 100 – 200 CE) as well as by Greek and Roman sources during this period.

Archeological finds.

A Million year old site belonging to advanced Tamil Civilization has been found in Chennai.

We also have a ver ancient site belonging to Prehistoric times in Karnataka.

And we have the Tamil Brahmi script found in Harappa. and Indus Valley.


‘Kaar Nadu means…Kaar, in Tamil, means regions rich with rainfall collecting mountains and associated regions and Nadu means country…Tamil word is used to refer a region with a particular geographic location…I have asked to my Kannada friends to find the meaning in Kannada language – they have few explanations which are vague for example, some Kannada language speakers think Kar (black) coloured soil region is referred as Kaarnataka – if that is true Karnataka should be less than 20% of the land it has now, because only 15% of the region has black soil in the pesent day state of Karnataka. In ancient Tamil kingdoms the land and the people were classified based on Geography that relate to their specific rich lifestyle and occupation. There are several ancient Tamil literature referring to Tulu naadu, kodagu nadu and kaaarnadu.
The discovery of a Neolithic stone celt, a hand-held axe, with the Indus script on it at Sembian-Kandiyur in Tamil Nadu is, according to Iravatham Mahadevan, “a major discovery because for the first time a text in the Indus script has been found in the State on a datable artefact, which is a polished neolithic celt.” He added: “This confirms that the Neolithic people of Tamil Nadu shared the same language family of the Harappan group, which can only be Dravidian. The discovery provides the first evidence that the Neolithic people of the Tamil country spoke a Dravidian language.” Mr. Mahadevan, an eminent expert on the subject, estimated the date of the artefact with the Indus script between 2000 B.C. and 1500 B.C’

  • A broken storage jar with inscriptions in Tamil Brahmi script in Quseir-al-Qadim, (Leukos Limen) Egypt, 1st century BCE. Two earlier Tamil Brahmi inscription discoveries at the same site, 1st century CE.]The inscriped text is “பானை ஒறி” (paanai oRi) which means ‘pot suspended in a rope net’.
  • An inscribed amphora fragment in Tamil at the ancient PtolemicRoman settlement of Berenice Troglodytica, Egypt, 1st century BCE- 1st century CE.
  • Tamil-Brahmi inscription on pottery found in Phu Khao Thong,Thailand, 2nd century CE. Touchstone (uraikal) engraved in Tamil in the Tamil-Brahmi script at Khuan Luk Pat, 3rd-4th century CE.
  • Potsherds with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions found in Poonagari, Jaffna, 2nd century BCE.
  • Black and red ware potsherd with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions in Ucchapanai, Kandarodai, Jaffna, 3rd century BCE.
  • Tamil Brahmi inscriptions on a pot rim at Pattanam, central Kerala, 2nd century CE.
  • Four Tamil-Brahmi inscriptions, 3rd century CE, found on Edakal cave, Ambukuthi hill, Kerala. One contained the word ‘Chera’ (‘kadummipudha chera’), the earliest inscriptional evidence of the dynasty Chera.
  • Potsherd with Tamil-Brahmi script found in Oman. The script reads “nantai kiran” and it can be dated to the 1st century CE.
  • A fragment of black and red ware flat dish inscribed in Tamil in theTamil Brahmi script excavated at the earliest layer in southern eastern town of Tissamaharama in Sri Lanka. It is dated to approximately 200 BC by German scholars who undertook the excavation.
  • Tamil Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Kodumanal, Chennimalai near Erode
  • Tamil-Brahmi script dating to 500 BC found at Porunthal site is located 12 km South West of Palani
  • Tamil-Brahmi script found on Tirupparankundram hill, Madurai it read as “Muu-na-ka-ra” and “Muu-ca-ka-ti, 1st century BCE.
  • Fifth ‘hero’ stone found with Tamil Brahmi inscriptions at Porpanakkottai
  • Tamil-Brahmi script dating back to the 3rd century BCE near Thenur, Madurai. Script is written in gold bar.
  • Tamil-Brahmi script dated to the 3rd century AD found preserved in laterite in Karadukka in Kasaragod district, Kerala

Which is Old, Kannada or Tamil

Pre-old Kannada (or Purava HaleGannada) was the language of Banavasi in the early Common Era, theSatavahana and Kadamba periods and hence has a history of over 2000 years.The Ashoka rock edict found at Brahmagiri (dated to 230 BC) has been suggested to contain words in identifiable Kannada.

A possibly more definite reference to Kannada is found in the ‘Charition mime’ of the 1st or 2nd century AD. The farce, written by an unknown author was discovered in the early 20th century at Oxyrynchus in Egypt. The play is concerned with a Greek lady named Charition who has been stranded on the coast of a country bordering the Indian Ocean. The king of this region, and his countrymen, sometimes use their own language, and the sentences they spoke include Koncha madhu patrakke haki (lit having poured a little wine into the cup separately) and paanam beretti katti madhuvam ber ettuvenu (lit having taken up the cup separately and having covered it, I shall take wine separately). The language employed in the papyrus indicates that the play is set in one of the numerous small ports on the western coast of India, between Karwar andMangalore’

  • 150,000-100,000 BCE – Evidence for presence of Hominins with Acheulean technology in north Tamil Nadu.
  • c. 30,000 BCE-Paleolithic industries in north Tamil Nadu
  • c. 80003000 BCE-Pre-pottery microlithic industries
  • c. 30001000 BCE-Neolithic and fine microlithic industries

Pre-Sangam period

  • c. 1000300 BCE-Megalithic age
  • c. 600 BCE-Tamil-Brahmi prevalent as the Tamil script
  • c. 300 BCE- Greek ethnographer Megasthenes visits Pandyan capitol Madurai.,
  • c. 250 BCE-Asoka’s inscription recording the four kingdoms (Chera, Cholas, Pandya and Satyaputra) of the ancient Tamil country
  • c. 200 BCE-Elara, a Tamil prince and contemporary of Dutte Gamini, rules Lanka

Sangam age

  • c. 200 BCE-200 CE-Sangam age during which books of Sangam Literature are created
  • c. 150 BCE-Kharavela of Kalinga records his conquest of a federation of Tamil kings in his Hathigumpha inscription [10]
  • c. 13– Greek historian Nicolaus of Damascus met an ambassador sent by Pandyan King to Caesar Augustus, Strabo XV.1-73.
  • c. 1-100 – The Periplus of the Erythraean Sea gives a detailed description of early Chera and Pandya kingdom and mentions Tamil country as ‘Damirica’
  • c. 77 and 140 Greco-Roman writers Pliny the Elder and Ptolemy mention Madurai ruled by Pandyan.
  • Considering he vast stretches of time involved, it is difficult to determine which influenced the other, Tamil or Kannada,despite fanatics claiming one way or the other.

In my opinion,as I said to Bharathitheertha Swami of Sringeri Peeta, our Father Tongue is Sanskrit mother tongue based of geographical location and it is best we enjoy these languages and follow Sanatana Dharma.

Squabbles are for the Immature.

I am yet to study Telugu and Godavari Valley.

I am sure more surprises will be in store.








Veda Shakhas Brahmin Distribution Region wise

Vedas, the basic referral text of Hindus is a highly organized one.

There are four Vedas, Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharva Veda.

Each Veda has four divisions,

Samhitas or Hymns.

Texts of Sanatana Dharma, Hinduism.png Texts of Sanatana Dharma, Hinduism.

Brahmanas, Rituals.

Aranyakas, to be recited in the forest and

Upanishads, containing the highest Knowledge of Reality, Brahman.

Veda has  two sub divisions.

Shukla and Krishna Yajur.

These Hymns have Sukhthas in them which are in praise of  Deities and they are also explanation of Cosmology.

Some of them are also addressed to curing diseases .

These texts have been classified by Rishis.

Each Veda has many Branches. called Shakhas.

A shakha (Sanskrit śākhā, “branch” or “limb”), is a Hindu theological school that specializes in learning certain Vedic texts, or else the traditional texts followed by such a school.[3][4] An individual follower of a particular school or recension is called a śākhin.[5] The term is also used in Hindu philosophy to refer to an adherent of a particular orthodox system.

A related term caraṇa, (“conduct of life” or “behavior”) is also used to refer to such a Vedic school:[7] “although the words caraṇa andśākhā are sometimes used synonymously, yet caraṇa properly applies to the sect or collection of persons united in one school, andśākhā to the traditional text followed, as in the phrase śākhām adhite, (“he recites a particular version of the Veda”)”.[4] The schools have different points of view, described as “difference of (Vedic) school” (śākhābhedaḥ). Each school would learn a specific VedicSaṃhita (one of the “four Vedas” properly so-called), as well as its associated Brahmana, Aranyakas, Shrautasutras, Grhyasutrasand Upanishads.

The traditional source of information on the shakhas of each Veda is the Caraṇa-vyūha, of which two, mostly similar, versions exist: the 49th pariśiṣṭa of the Atharvaveda, ascribed to Shaunaka, and the 5thpariśiṣṭa of the Śukla (White) Yajurveda, ascribed to Kātyāyana. These have lists of the numbers of recensions that were believed to have once existed as well as those still extant at the time the works were compiled. Only a small number of recensions have survived.

Rig Veda

Śaunaka‘s Caraṇa-vyuha lists five shakhas for the Rig Veda, the Śākala, Bāṣkala, Aśvalāyana, Śaṅkhāyana, and Māṇḍukāyana of which only the Śākala and Bāṣkala are now extant. The Bashkala recension of the Rigveda has the Khilani which are not present in the Shakala text but is preserved in one Kashmir manuscript (now at Pune). The Shakala has the Aitareya-Brahmana, The Bashkala has the Kausitaki-Brahmana.

There is, however, Sutra literature from the Aśvalāyana shakha, both a shrauta sutra and a grhya sutra, both surviving with a commentary (vrtti) by Gargya Naranaya. Gargya Naranaya’s commentary was based on the longer commentary or bhashya by Devasvamin, written in the 11th century.

Yajur Veda

Śaunaka‘s Caraṇa-vyuha lists forty-two or forty-four out of eighty-six shakhas for the Yajur Veda, but that only five of these are now extant, with a sixth partially extant. For the Yajur Veda the five (partially in six) shakhas are the (Vajasaneyi Madhandina, Kanva; Taittiriya, Maitrayani, Caraka-Katha, Kapisthala-Katha).

The Yajurvedin shakhas are divided in Shukla (White) and Krishna (Black) schools. The White recensions have separate Brahmanas, while the Black ones have their(much earlier) Brahmanas interspersed between the Mantras.

  • Shukla Yajurveda: Vājasaneyi Samhita Madhyandina (VSM), Vājasaneyi Samhita Kānva (VSK): Shatapatha Brahmana (ShBM, ShBK)
  • Krishna Yajurveda: Taittirīya Saṃhita (TS) with an additional Brahmana, Taittiriya Brahmana (TB), Maitrayani Saṃhita (MS), Caraka-Katha Saṃhita (KS), Kapiṣṭhala-Katha Saṃhita (KapS).
  • Citation.


for more on Vedas check my Posts by Googling Vedas ramanan50.


Shakha Samhita Brahmana Aranyaka Upanishad
Madhyandina (VSM) Currently recited by all over North Indian Brahmins and by Deshastha Brahmins Madhyandina Shatapatha (SBM) survives as Shatapatha XIV.1-8, with accents. Brihadaranyaka Upanishad= SBM XIV. 3-8, with accents, Ishavasya Upanishad = VSM 40
Kanva (VSK) Currently recited by Utkala Brahmins, Kannada Brahmins, Karhade Brahmins and few Iyers Kanva Shatapatha (SBK)(different from madhyandina) survives as book XVII of SBK Brihadaranyaka Upanishad=SBK,with accents, Ishavasya Upanishad = VSK 40


Shakha Samhita Brahmana Aranyaka Upanishad
Taittiriya TS,Present all over South India and in Konkan Taittiriya Brahmana (TB) and Vadhula Br. (part of Vadhula Srautrasutra) Taittiriya Aranyaka (TA) Taittiriya Upanishad (TU)
Maitrayani MS,Recited by few Brahmins in Nasik virtually same as the Upanishad Maitrayaniya Upanishad
Caraka-Katha Katha Aranyaka (almost the entire text from a solitary manuscript) Kathaka Upanishad, Katha-Shiksha Upanishad
Kapishthala KapS (fragmentary manuscript, only first sections accented), edited (without accents) by Raghu Vira.

Sama Veda

Śaunaka‘s Caraṇa-vyuha lists twelve shakhas for the Sama Veda out of a thousand that are said to have once existed, but that of these only one or perhaps two are still extant. The two Samaveda recensions are the Jaiminiya and Kauthuma.

The Kauthuma shakha has the PB, SadvB, the Jaiminiya shakha has the Jaiminiya Brahmana.

Shakha Samhita Brahmana Aranyaka Upanishad
Kauthuma edited,Recited by all over North and in South India[citation needed] edited (8 Brahmanas in all), no accents None. The Samhita itself has the ‘Aranyaka’. Chandogya Upanishad
Ranayaniya Manuscripts of Samhita exist.Recited byGokarna[disambiguation needed],and Deshastha Brahmins[citation needed] Same as Kauthuma with minor differences. None. The Samhita itself has the ‘Aranyaka’. Same as Kauthuma.
Jaiminiya/Talavakara Samhita edited.Recited by Nambudiris and choliyal of Tamil nadu[citation needed] Two distinct styles of Saman recitation, partially recorded and published.[citation needed] Brahmana published (without accents) – Jaiminiya Brahmana, Arsheya Brahmana Tamil Nadu version of Talavakara Aranyaka (=Jaiminiya Upanishad Brahmana) published[citation needed] Kena Upanishad

Atharva Veda

Only one shakha of an original nine is now extant for the Atharvaveda. The nine sakhas were Paippalada, Tauda, Mauda, Shaunakiya, Jajala, Jalada, Brahmavada, Devadarsa and Chaarana-Vaidya.

The Shaunaka is the only shakha of the Atharvaveda for which both printed texts and an active oral tradition are known to still exist.

For the Atharvaveda, both the Shaunakiya and the Paippalada traditions contain textual corruptions, and the original text of the Atharvaveda may only be approximated from comparison between the two.

Shakha Samhita Brahmana Aranyaka Upanishad
Shaunaka AVS, edited and recited by all over North India and South India Fragmentary Gopatha Brahmana (extant and published), no accents. Mundaka Upanishad (?) published.
Paippalada AVP; recited by Utkala Brahmins as samhita patha only. otherwise, two manuscripts survive: Kashmiri (mostly edited) and Oriya (partly edited, by Dipak Bhattacharya and others, unaccented) lost,similar to that of Gopatha Brahmana Prashna Upanishad, Sharabha Upanishad etc. – all edited.[citation needed]
Astrophysics, Hinduism

Nataraja Chidambaram Represents Orion Super Nova Explosion 1054 AD

The details that have been taken into account to construct a Temple in India of the olden days is amazing.

These details reveal not only the depth of Devotin to the Deity/ies,but also the deep knowledge they had of the universe and its principles.

Lord Nataraja.jpeg

Lord Nataraja.

The designs of these temples are narrated in the Agama sastra.

Please refer my Posts on this.

The Building of the halls, breaking them up into Praharas(outer Corridor),Mandapas(halls),Artha Mandapas( halls of half the measurement of the Mantapas),Pillared Halls, Sabha Mantapas and the Sanctum, Garbha Gruha…..

all these follow either geological or magnetic , electromagnetic, astronomical principles or all of these put together.

I shall be writing on these aspects of some great temples of India.

I shall start with the Thillai Natarja temple, Chidambaram, Tamil Nadu, India.

More than the well-known Temples, it is the less known temples which have astounding characteristics.

I have written on some of these.

For the present Let me concentrate on Nataraja, Chidambaram.

Nataraja,a form of Shiva, temple in Chidambaram is one of the Pancha Bhutha Sthalas(,Earth, Water, Fire,Air and Ether)

representing the Ether.

There is Empty Space in the enclosure adjacent to Nataraja idol in the temple.

Aarthi is performed to this Space after an Aarthi is offered to Nataraja.

This empty Space reflects the Abstract principle Brahman, the Reality.

Researches  have been conducted on this temple on various aspects, its construction, Roof, Pillars, Magnetic Radiation,

Natarja’s Big Toe is presumed to represent the center of the universe.

It is also stated that Lord Nataraja ‘s big toe is the Centre Point of World ‘s Magnetic Equator.

Chidambaram ,Kanchipuram and Sri Kalahasti lie in a straight line at 79* 41 East Longitude.

Curious as these happen to be among the Panchabhuta Sthalas, Places of Five Elements, Earth, Water, Fire, Air and Ether.

The temple for water is in Thiruvanaikaval, fire is inThiruvannamalai , air is in Kalahasti ,  earth is  in  Kanchipuram  and The temple for space/sky is in Chidambaram.

Earth is nestled between Sky/Ether/Space, Aakasa( Chidambaram) and Air,Vayu(Kalahasti).

Earth is surrounded by Space and Air.

Ans Vishnu’s Nabhi, Navel of Vishnu has been validated as the  Center of Our Galaxy.

Read here.

The Southern Cross and Canopus tally with Trishanku Swarga and Agasthya Star respectively.

Hence I did not want to dismiss the point that Chidambaram being the Centre of earth’s /universe’s Magnetic field.”

Research into the Idol of Lord Nataraja  scholars indicate and confirm that the Idll’s design represents the Crab super Nova Explosion of 1054 AD!

‘Although the Nataraja metal icon with right leg extended was regarded as a tenth century Chola innovation, this study suggested that two fine Nataraja bronzes previously classified as Chola better fitted the metallurgical profile of Pallava bronzes of about 800 AD (Srinivasan 2001, 2004). The likely worship of Nataraja by the Pallava period at Chidambaram with ideas of cosmic creation and destruction is suggested in Manikkavachakar’s Tiruvachakam, which says, ‘Let us praise the Dancer (kuttan) who in good Tillai’s hall dances with fire, who sports (vilaiyatu), creating, destroying, this heaven and earth and all else’ [Dehejia (2002: 103)]. For me, it has been rather lovely and apt, that what had not really been discerned by conventional art history had been revealed through the dance of science and its patterns of elemental and isotopic particles. …

There seem to be astronomical connotations to the rituals associated with Nataraja worship at the Chidambaram temple. Arudra/Ardra darisanam is a ten-day annual festival in December related to the moon being full in the lunar asterism of the naksatra ardra (the reddish star Betelguese or Alpha Orionis), associated with the wrathful aspect of Siva. The constellation of Orion and surrounding stars is bathed in the soft glow of the full moon when it is high in the sky at Chidambaram. A thousand years ago, devoid of the present smog and light flares, the stars must have been even brighter in the tropical night sky.

Another annual festival at Chidambaram, the Brahmotsavam of Ani Thirumanjanam, which is related to the lunar asterism of Uttara Nakshatra around June-July, seems to have begun in the mid-eleventh century from inscription. The Indian zodiac of 360 degrees is divided into 27 parts based on the moon’s sidereal period such that a nakshatra denotes the longitudinal position of the moon within 13 degrees 20 minutes. Thus, by using astronomical software, Dr. Raghavan could ascertain that in 1054 AD the moon would have been full in Uttara Nakshatra on 11 July. This is uncannily close to the date that Chinese astronomers recorded the crab supernova explosion of 4 July! Although this is a preliminary finding, it could suggest a perceived metaphoric link between an observed cosmic phenomenon and notions of cosmic dance.

Indeed, a drawing from a Tamil manuscript sourced by Raja Deekshitar of Chidambaram shows how the Nataraja icon itself was probably traditionally visualized within the stars around Orion. In an exciting collaborative study with Dr. Raghavan, we took some photographs of Nataraja images dated from archaeometallurgical fingerprinting and plotted star charts for the constellation Orion of that corresponding era onto them. As reported in Orientations (Srinivasan, 2006), the star positions were found to a fair extent to correlate with iconometric design as noted in an image in the British Museum attributed from archaeometallurgical fingerprinting to the Pallava period (c. 800 AD). Moreover, the star chart for 1054 AD fitted well the iconometric design of a Nataraja image from Kankoduvanitham archaeometallurgically fingerprinted to the mid-eleventh century AD. Here, the hypothetical position of the crab supernova which exploded in 1054 AD lies near the top left of the head, close to the crescent moon. Chinese records suggest that the crab supernova came into view with a morning crescent moon near it and was visible for 23 days, being four times as bright as Venus. Even American Indians are believed to have made cave paintings of a supernova with a crescent moon. Could it be that the iconometric design of this icon had indeed taken into account the observation of
the supernova explosion?

Crab Nebula Explosin 1054 AD.jpg Crab Nebula Explosin 1054 AD

At any rate, the above studies suggest scope for further investigation into the history of astronomy. No less than celebrated astronomer Carl Sagan suggested that the Nataraja imagery conveyed ‘a premonition of modern astronomical ideas’




Tamil Chola Sibi Ruled From Pakistan?

The affinity of Sanskrit, Tamil Culture with Sanatana Dharma is very close.

The Tamil kings are referred to in the Vedas, Puranas, Ramayana and Mahabharata.

They predate even Lord Rama.

Tamil ings were present during the Swayamvar of Sita,

They were present during the Swayamvar of Nala and Damayanthi.

Nala was the ancestor of Lord Rama and legends have it that Nala visited Thirunaru, Pondicherry, to be relived of Shani(Saturn’s) effect.

Though there are many  anecdotes of Tamil Kings, who trace their lineage to Solar Dynasty, two stand out.

One is Manu Needhi Chola,means, one who effectively enforced the rules elaborated by Manu.

He ran his son over by his chariot,(he was riding it) because a Cow complained to him by ringing the Bell he installed to hear people’s grievances and informed him that his son ran over its calf.

Manuneedhi Chola atoned it by running his chariot over his son!

The episode is found in the Hitti Civilization-they were the forerunners of the Anatolian Civilization.

Another is Emperor Sibi.

Chakravarthy Sibi is mentioned in the Rig Veda, Ramayana and Mahabharata , apart from references in the eighteen Puranas.

Thereafter, the king when recovered from loss of consciousness and again returned to his breath, called that charioteer for the purpose of getting the report on Rama. Then, Sumantra, who joined his palms in reverence, approached the monarch who was repenting about Rama alone, filled with pain and sorrow, advanced in age, greatly anguished, sighing like a newly caught elephant and reflecting on something as a sick elephant.

 The king, having great distress, spoke to Sumantra, whose body was covered with dust, his face filled with tears, who was miserable and who approached near him (as follows):” Oh, Sumantra! Where can Rama the virtuous man abide, taking refuge at the root of a tree? What that Rama, who enjoyed very many pleasantries, can eat now? Oh, Sumantra! How can Rama the prince, who was habituated to good beds, sleep with such discomfort on a floor like an orphan? Footsoldiers, Chariots and elephants used to follow whenever Rama was marching ahead. How such a man can take shelter and stay in a forest devoid of people? How Seetha Rama and Lakshmana entered forest filled with wild animals and black snakes? How those princes with Seetha the delicate and the poor lady went on foot, after descending from the chariot? You have seen my sons entering the forest, as though divinities of Aswini had entered the Mountain-range of Mandara. You are indeed lucky. After reaching the forest, what words did Rama speak? What did Lakshmana speak? What did Seetha speak?  Tell me where Rama sat, slept and took food. By hearing these things, I shall survive, as Yayati survived in the company of saints.”

Comment: King Yayati, when doomed to fall from heaven requested Indra to cast his lot with saints. He was accordingly sent down to a spot on the earth, where four ascetics- Astaka Pratardana, Vasuman and parva King Sibi had been practicing austerities, and had discourse with them- Mahabharata, Adi Parva.

Ayodhya Kanda, Ramayana, Sarga 58

Sibi was son of King Usinara and queen Madhavi. He was a righteous king. Indra and Agni wanted to test his integrity and so they took the form of birds hawk and dove. The hawk chased the dove and it sought protection from Sibi. Sibi was ready to give the hawk anything except the dove. But the hawk (Indra) was so adamant demanded either the dove or equal measure of meat from the king. When the king cut his flesh and placed it on one pan and the dove on the other pan, it was never equal. The king himself mounted the balance to give himself for the sake of the dove. But Indra and Agni revealed themselves and blessed him. There is another story of Sibi’s eye donation in the Buddhist Jataka.

This story is sung by several poets and they are in Purananuru verses 37, 39, 43 46 and 228. Sibi’s wards were called Saibya in Sanskrit. Sangam Tamil poets Tamilized this word and called the Chozas Sembian. This word is in other Sangam books Aka Nanuru (36) and Natrinai (14)…

King Sibi weighing his Thigh Flesh.Sculpture, Borobudur King Sibi weighing his Thigh Flesh.

The story of Sibi Chakravarthy is so famous that it was sculpted in the Barhut, Nagarjunakonda ,Amaravati bas-reliefs and  Borobudur in Java,Indonesia (see Boropudur sculpture above).

Tamil epics Silappadikaram and Manimekalai gave more details about this link. Since the oldest part of Sangam Tamil literature mentions it no one can reject it. The link is confirmed with other stories as well.

Sibi ruled from the north west of India. There was a Sibi puram on the banks of river Chenab in Punjab. Sibi clan is mentioned in Rig Veda and Brahmanas. Panini referred one Sivapuram may be the same Sibipuram’

Sibi is in Nort west of India, currently in Pakistan.

There are views that Sibi ruled from there and that the Tamils were from North India.

Considering the differences between the Tamil Culture and Sanatana Dharma, thought Tamils were a part of Sanatana Dharma and the archeological evidence,Literature, the structural difference between Sanskrit , I am of the opinion that it is not so.

In the case of Sibi. it is probable that Sibi had the city of Sibi as a second capital.

Sibi (Balochi: بلوچ ) (Urdu: سِبی‎) is a city of Balochistan province of Pakistan. The city is located at 29°33’0N 67°52’60E at an altitude of 130 metres (429 feet)[1] and is headquarters of the district and tehsil of the same name.[2] According to the 2001 census of Pakistan, the population of Sibi is 52,100..



Ekambareswarar Temple, Kanchipuram,Tamil Nadu India.jpg
Hinduism, Tamils

Secret Chambers Ekambareswara Temple Key To Lost Mu Civilization?

I have been researching into the origins of Shiva worship in the South.

I have been referring to, apart from  Sanskrit texts, Tamil Texts,Temple architecture and Temple histories of south and north India.

In this search,I have noticed that there were at least two tsunamis mentioned in the Tamil Classics.

The great Flood is present in almost all the civilizations of the world.

And there are more interesting  nuggets of information.

1.The Sanatna Dharma spread in South East Asia and Westwards of India seem to have been from the South.

2.Rama’s ancestor Satyavrata Manu migrated from the South to the North and his son Ikshvaku founded the Ikshvaku Dynasty.

3.The South Asian spread of Santana Dharma seems to have preceded the spread int he west.

4.The remains of Tamil Culture is found in all the Asian countries , New Zealand and Australia.

5.The Incas whose ancestors were Tamils and they came later than the Africans.

6.The ancestors of the Africans, the Olmecs’ ancestors were Tamils from Godavari Kumtis.

7.This leads to the discrepancy in dating the Tamils and these Cultures.

8. Once we are able to distinguish between the Two Floods, we can see some light in this search.

The Southern part of India, below the Deccan Plateau/ Vindhya/Satpura Mountains seems to have separated from the landmass of India twice, one each at each Flood.

The earliest one formed the Kumari Kandam, which has been referred to by the Tamil Classics.

This spread was east wards towards reaching to Australia.

Later came the Lemuria, which had the Atlantis a part of it.

I have been trying to find the connection between the Mu Civilization and the Tamils.

Detailed Post on this follows shortly.

In the meantime I stumbled on some information I thought worth sharing.

The theory of the Lost Civilization of Mus was floated by James Churchward, a patented inventor, engineer.

‘he had found evidence of a lost civilisation: Mu. Mu was said to have been the Pacific equivalent of Atlantis, though Churchward said it was a colony of Mu. The first man to write about Mu was Augustus LePlongeon, who in archaeological circles has the distinction of being the first to make a photographic record of the ruins of Chichen Itza. In his books “Sacred Mysteries Among the Mayans and Quiches” (1886) and “Queen Moo and the Egyptian Sphinx” (1896), LePlongeon related his decipherment of the so-called “Troano Codex”, which he claimed showed that the Maya were the ancestors of the Ancient Egyptians. The Mayans had originated from a lost civilization, Mu, which was on par with Atlantis, and which had been destroyed by a volcanic eruption. He added that Queen Moo – clearly linked with Mu – had travelled from this continent to Egypt, where she had gone down into the history books under her new name of Isis. Unfortunately, when the Mayan language was deciphered several decades later, it was learned that LePlongeon’s interpretation of this document was completely erroneous, sometimes even using letters that were in fact no such thing. Jack Churchward, a descendent of James Churchward, states that LePlongeon relied on the translation of Brasseur de Bourbourg. Jack Churchward received an email from one of de Bourbourg’s descendants, who stated that the translation was done by channelling a spirit, which explains why LePlongeon erred so much when he interpreted the document based on this translation.
LePlongeon did put the lost civilization of Mu on the books, but left it to Theosophist Helena Blavatsky to popularize the lost continent, claiming it was the mystical birthplace of occult traditions. But the man who brought Mu from theory and speculation to reality was James Churchward, who claimed to have found hard physical evidence for the continent’s existence, when he was shown a secret library in India…

Chruchward reported that he found manuscripts signifying the connection between the Tamils and the Mus ina secret chamber in Ekambareswarar Temple, Kanchipuram,Tamil Nadu.

He had found some Tablets too.

‘Churchward’s discovery became famous when a major article on it appeared on November 10, 1924 in the “New York American” newspaper. In it, the central framework of Churchward’s claims about Mu was put forward. The civilisation was labelled “Empire of the Sun”. It was once a civilisation that had 64 million inhabitants, known as the Naacals, the priestly brotherhood, keepers of the sacred wisdom, who lived 50,000 years ago. All known ancient civilisations – India, Egypt and the Mayas – were decayed remnants of its many colonies.
In 1926, at the age of 75, Churchward published “The Lost Continent of Mu: Motherland of Man”. Where was Mu? It extended from north of Hawaii to the Fijis and Easter Island. Geologists find it hard to imagine dry land here, as the area is crossed by the so-called Andesite Line, making it geologically unlikely there was a landmass here. As Churchward never produced any evidence for his visit to the Naacal Library, several people treat his claims with scepticism.
So was Churchward a liar, or someone with genuine experiences? To understand the man better, it is noted that some aspects of the Mu legend are original to Churchward, some aren’t. It was LePlongeon who had first written about the “Nacaal”, in 1896, where he identifies them as Maya adepts and missionaries, with the word Naacal meaning “the exalted”. But LePlongeon therefore identified their homeland as Central America, not Mu in the Pacific Ocean, which was specific to Churchward.
What about his relationship with Blavatsky? They both claimed that in India, they had been exposed to “lost knowledge”. In the case of Blavatsky, her source of lost knowledge was the “Book of Dzyan”, supposedly written in Atlantis and presented to her by the Indian Mahatmas.
Indeed, though it could be argued that Churchward merely copied from the likes of Blavatsky and LePlongeon in his exploit of Mu, at the same time, it could be said that his story is totally true and that it confirms Blavatsky’s assertions and that Churchward spent several decades cementing his case before he went public and wrote his series of books on the subject.
Churchward was living in India in the 1880s, before he moved to the United States in 1889. It is during his time in India when he allegedly made contact with these Indian adepts – allowing for a period of roughly a decade where he could befriend, learn and study the language – more than sufficient time. Churchward said he studied the language which was said to be Mankind’s original language, which had labelled “Naga-Maya”, for more than two years
After having read the Naacal documents, he continued his searches for further information. In Burma, he visited an ancient Buddhist temple in search of the missing records, carrying letters of introduction from the Indian high priests with whom he studied…

‘His story truly hinges on whether or not he acquainted an Indian priest and saw numerous rare tablets. As a result, for years, the story of Churchward therefore remained a legend, while his books were reprinted. But never, anything new was found that might change the status quo. That changed when the German independent researcher, author and travel agency manager Thomas Ritter claimed he had entered a “secret library” underneath Sri Ekambaranatha temple in Kanchipuram, India in which he has found evidence of the lost civilisation of Mu.
He claims that on July 23, 2010, he was contacted by one Pachayappa, who invited him to enter the underground complex – and even allowed him to photograph some of its contents! Ritter states how “at chamber no. 4 the priest only allowed me to take pictures from two tablets, not from all this books there. The two tablets he showed me, are a little bit damaged. But you can see clearly the inscriptions.”
These two tablets are the so-called Naacal tablets, which James Churchward claimed to have seen many decades before. When Ritter published the material, there was immediately a torrent of disbelief, not helped by the realization that what Ritter apparently showed was a tablet unearthed in Byblos (Lebanon), discovered by French archaeologist Maurice Dunand. Because of the small amount of writing on the tablets, they have so far not been deciphered, though the script is identified – Proto-Byblian – and therefore not related to India. Indeed, the tablet presented by Ritter is in the Beirut Museum (Cat. 16598) and not a secret library in India.
Ritter claims that in July 2010, he was not welcomed by the usual young priest Narjan, whom he knew well, but an elder man, Pachayappa, who unlike Narjan, did not speak English. Pachayappa took him down into the underground structures of the temple complex. Ritter states: “Before an iron-bound door he stopped and pointed with some gesture to the bottom: ‘Rishi place!’” Then he opened the door, behind which the Nacaal library was located.
Whether Ritter is lying or not, he has at least specifically identified a temple as the location of the library: the Sri Ekambaranatha Temple in Kanchipuram, in the state of Tamil (India). The gate of the temple complex measures more than sixty metres tall, making it the largest temple tower in Southern India, and is made from granite, decorated with the images of gods, goddesses and heroes. The complex is a Hindu temple dedicated to Lord Shiva and is one of the five major Shiva temples, each of which representing a natural element. The Sri Ekambaranatha Temple represents the element earth. The temple’s history dates back to at least 600 AD, though could be older and is notorious for its “hallway with a thousand pillars”, as the temple’s inner walls are decorated with an array of 1,008 Shiva lingams, a symbol of the male energy.
But Ritter has drawn attention to the subterranean system of this complex, where he claims there are ten chambers. In nine of these chambers, they stored the tablets. Each room measured 25 meters long and 15 meters wide, with the ceiling quite low – he could touch it when he stretched his arm out. Pachayappa claimed that the inscriptions detailed the Rishi Puranas, the lives of the culture bringers of Ancient India. Inside were black granite tables, and there were tens of thousands of stone tablets. Ritter notes that “both sides of such postcard-sized stone tablets engraved with tiny lines were narrow characters covered in an unfamiliar script. Other plates showed fine geometric patterns on running, technical drawings, maps and astronomical images.” When he asked what they contained, he said it was the legacy of the Seven Sages.
In the first three chambers, the tablets are made from black granite, in the next three from gold. Each golden tablet was fourteen by ten centimeters, and about two to three milimeters thick and were bound like a book.
In the final three rooms, he found silver and bronze tablets that were hard to read, so Ritter used a handkerchief to polish the tablet, restoring it to its original state.
Ritter claims he was only allowed to photograph two tablets. All of these chambers have inscriptions, describing the lives and deeds of the rishis, and has produced photographs of these inscriptions.
The tenth room was located at the end of the corridor. In the middle of the room rose a column of about 1.50 m high from a solid black material, and according to Pachayappa, the material was not stone. Behind the lingam were statues of the Seven Rishis, placed in a semi-circle, and were made from a shimmering metal, which Ritter thought could be gold or silver-plated. One of them he was able to identify as Aghasthiya, who is always depicted as a dwarf.’

Kanchipuram Residents, please contribute.


Secret Chamber in Ekambareswarar Temple