Are The Vedas Obscene

I have come across an article which claims to have analyzed the Vedas in-depth, with quotes and translations from eminent persons like Swami Dayananda Sarasvati,concluding  that the Vedas are Obscene.

 

 

The Vedas

I have published an article on whether Rama’s Mother Kausalya indulged in Horse sex and orgy.

 

“Although all three of King Dasaratha’s wives were united with the carcass of the horse, Rama’s mom Kausalya was the one who had the honor of spending a whole night with the dead animal’s genitals plugged in her vagina: “

 

Another on the observation that the Vedas contain and promote Incest.

 

‘Swami Dayanand Saraswati, in his book Rigvedadi Bhashya Bhumika on the authority of Rigved 1/164/33, uses immoral language to convey the working of the natural phenomenon. You can yourself assess the cheap nature of this allegory, which promotes and glorifies incest”

 

Links are provided towards the close of the Post and you may read my rebuttals.

 

Now to the conclusion that the Vedas are obscene.

 

1.One should study the Vedas in its entirety.

 

The Vedas are not Books that are compiled to promote a particular group nor are they founded by some one who visits Heaven in a Horse, reads the Laws of God written in a Stone(as if God can not remember His own Laws) and reveals(?) after  some time (possibly for recollection).

 

The Vedas are grasped from the Ether by various people of various dispositions and were transmitted through word of mouth.

 

Unlike some Religions, Hinduism, does not believe in numbers nor does it proclaim that  those who do not  subscribe to it are Infidels,Heathen, nor does it consign them to Hell.

Information as experienced, as distinct from  being learned, were compiled later by Vyasa for People to refer and follow, if they so desire.

 

2.The Vedas need 36 years of study or at least seven years to understand.

 

3.The core teaching has to be grasped, that of,

 

Reality being a Principle,

 

That It has No name and Form,

 

That the Deavatas and the Timurthis, Brahma, Vishnu ans Rudra are prone to emotions and they pay for their actions.

 

Especially the Deavatas like Indra , Varuna, Agni, Vayu and others are only a slightly more evolved Beings than Man:they undergo the trails and tribulations as we Humans go through because of our desires.

 

3.Some of the passages quoted in the article are allegorical and they do not promote obscenity.

 

4.To understand the Vedas , one must know that Vedas, at the Highest level do not subscribe to the concept of Sin at all.

 

It says that the so-called Sins are the result of Human Nature nd warns people to stay away if they want to develop spiritually.

 

Sanctions are imposed by the Smritis and not by the Sruthi(Vedas)

 

Later The Ithihasas, Ramayana,  Mahabharata and the Puranas express this idea from real life and expose the perils of such desires.

 

But this concept needs maturity to understand.

 

In the hands of the immature this would promote personal degradation and social instability.

 

5.And one must understand that The Puranas,and the Vedas are facts and they reveal what is the Truth, even if it be unpalatable and by our human standards sinful.

 

Facts, in the view of Hinduism, are facts, even if the perpetrators are Gods themselves.

 

It may be Indra when he forcefully enjoyed Ahalya,Lord Rama when He killed Vaali by hiding behind a tree or Lord Krishna’s son who ridiculed Sages.

 

”

Rig Veda 10.110.5 Spacious doors remain wide open like beautiful wives for their husbands. O divine doors, great and all-impellers, be easy of access to the gods.

 

Yaska Acharya explains this verse as

Nirukta 8.10 ”Having spaciousness, make yourself wide open as exceedingly beautiful wives do their thighs for their husbands in sexual intercourse. The thighs are the most beautiful parts (of the body)…”

 

The next verse is even more obscene,

 

‘‘Just as a wife, the recipient of semen, at the time of cohabitation keeps her head opposite to the head of the husband, and her face opposite to that of his, so should both husband and wife perform together their domestic duties. A husband is a protector like a physician. He lives happily like a child, and with tranquillity produces progeny with penis keen with ardour.”- Yajur Veda 19.88, Tr. Devi Chand (Arya Samaj), p.215.

 

What is obscene  in describing the actual sex position?

 

Hinduism does nor  abhor sex for it knows it is Natural

 

As to the first portion of this quote, it is a simile .

 

“We read in newspaper about some Hindu scholars condemning homosexuality. But do they have any evidence that prohibits homosexuality in Hinduism? Hindu scholars fail to furnish any reference which condemns homosexuality but still some try to term homosexuality as irreligious act. Fortunately there are some Hindu scholars like Shri Shri Ravishankar who honestly accept such facts, below are two snapshots of his tweets

 

True.

 

Hinduism accepts LGBT.

 

What is wrong in it?

 

Please read my post on this.

 

Animal Sex.

”

Some protestant Hindus proudly promote Vedas as philosophical, free from all vulgarities. But in reality there is no limit for Vulgarity in Vedas. It even promotes sex with animals let alone adultery and pornography. Sex with animals in Hinduism is not a vulgar thing, Ancient Hindu temples like Khajuraho, Ajanta, Ellora clearly depicts men and girls having sex with animals.

 

”As a buffalo (Indra) desired the lusty female born from himself; the mena of the horse he made into the mother of the cow”- Rig Veda 1.121.2, Tr. Geldner.

 

Maharshi Yaska mentions a strange story about the birth of Asvins (the twin horsemen). The story says Saranyu was unwilling to have sex with Vivasvat and ran away but Vivasvat chased her and raped her. Yaska writes,

 

”Saranyu daughter of Tvastr bore twins, Yama and Yami, to Vivasvat the sun. She having substituted another lady of similar appearance, and having assumed the shape of a mare, ran away. He, Vivasvat, the sun, having also assumed the shape of a horse, pursued her, and joined her. Thence the Asvins were born. Manu was born from the lady of similar appearance.” Nirukta 12.10

 

In all these cases the perversions of Human Nature are exposed.

 

They are not promoted.

 

In these cases the individual has sex with the animals after assuming the form of the animal, there is no Human animal sex here.

 

The articles other points merit)?) the same rebuttal.

 

I forgot to add that some of the meanings are by western scholars(?) to malign Hinduism and promote Christianity.

 

Citation.

http://truthabouthinduism.wordpress.com/2014/05/15/there-is-indeed-obscenity-in-vedas/

 

Related.

 

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/tag/kausalya/

 

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2013/05/14/incest-in-the-vedas/

 

 

Exchange Wives, Rig Veda

One has to bear in mind that , in a society, we have many issues, including the most personal issues of an individual.

 

It is the duty of an organized society to take cognizance of his and offer a solution that would solve the individual’s problem and at the same time ensure the smooth function of the Society.

 

Rig Veda Manuscripts. Bhandarkar collections.

 

A society consists of individuals.

 

And there might be people who may not be virtuous as well in , though the majority are virtuous.

 

This is applicable to any society of any time frame.

 

One has to bear in mind this fact when one talks about the Vedic India and its people.

 

Ravana existed when Lord Rama lived.

 

Duryodhana lived along side Yudhistra.

 

So when one reads the Vedas, these facts are to be borne in mind.

 

The Vedic society consisted of virtuous men and women;it also had people of lowly character.

 

Then we have social issues like Drinking, prostitution, gambling and sexual profligacy.

 

These belong to the people of bad character.

 

There are social issues like women being deserted by husbands, Adulterous relationships.

 

These are dealt by the Vedas and Smritis with Injunctions against them.

 

There are also some issue for which the individual is powerless to handle.

 

For example, impotency, inability to conceive.

 

Under such circumstances, the society must offer measures to ensure that the individual problem is resolved with  least impact to the society.

 

One such issue is childlessness and Impotency,

 

This problem was dealt with by Hinduism during the Vedic period in a practical way.

 

If a husband is not capable to produce sperms (i.e. Impotent) ,then he has the right to order his wife.,To copulate with other man to beget a child [RigVed Mantra 10 Sutra 10)

 

This is being quoted to vilify Hinduism and the Vedas.

 

”

First there is no concept of order in marital relations in Vedas.
Second, Niyog was a social custom for an emergency situation which was applicable only when all other options of getting a child – including adoption – had been exhausted and getting a child was necessary for couple for any valid reason.
Third, it could happen only if the society permits this. This cannot be independent decision of couple alone.
Fourth, this is exactly that was practiced in all societies of world including Islam. For example, Hazrat Ismail was born when Hazrat Ibrahim impregnated his slave. Hazrat Muhammad got his son from Maria who was his slave and not one of his multiple wives.

Q b) Is it not what the above Mantra says? What is the true meaning of the Mantra?

Answer: No, the mantra only says that if someone does not consider himself to be able to perform his duties in a dual relation, he should allow the other person to seek other partner. This is a very broad principle that can apply in all situations of life – business partnership, master-servant, king-subject or marital relationship etc. Earlier people have tried to interpret this to justify Niyog and avoid prostitution. But Vedas do not get into such details.

Q c) What does niyoga means? Is it not exchanging wives?

Answer: Vedas do not have any word like Niyog. Niyog was a social custom invented for those times where people wanted a child to protect their property, have safety in old age etc but were unable to get a child due to some reason. Niyog literally means a union. It is understood to mean a temporary appointment. This is social custom and not a word from Vedas. In any case, even the social custom of Niyog was to PROHIBIT wife exchanging and hence means exactly opposite of what seem to perceived. In today’s society, when variety of new methods of fertility as well as options for adoption exists and the concept of patriarchal kingdoms has vanished, Niyog is not more applicable even as a social concept, in same manner as one need not wear dress of hide-skins when you live near a tailor shop and have money to by dresses.

Besides , the Rik Veda also say that if at all the women has taken a second man as the new husband(under the condition of first husband being impotent), her first husband cannot have any physical relation with her and he acts as her brother in relation.

 

Q d) What does the Mantra say?

Coming to current mantra 10.10.10 of Rigveda, it says:
Anyam – someone else
Ichhasva – desire
Subhage – one desiring happiness
Patim – Leader
Mat – Apart from me

Now Pati is a broad term – king is a pati, general is a pati, employer is a pati, parents are pati. Anyone who is supposed to take responsibility is a Pati.

 

Citation.

http://www.vedicgranth.org/misconceptions-on-vedas/misconception-6—vedas-contain-niyoga-which-means-exchanging-wives-many-muslims-use-this-misconception-to-derogate-vedas

Image credit.

 

www.vedandtechs.com

 

Related articles

• Speed of Light in the Rig Veda
• Vedas Essential Details
• Laws Of Motion Rig Veda Full Moon Image Verses

LGBT Issues In Hindu Forward Communities

Sometime back I posted an article on the views of Hinduism on LGBT.

 

The post received good response and many with this issue have written to me saying that  th post helped them mentally.

 

Yet members of some communities i Facebook of which I am a member, felt that these issues are in bad taste and some communities have even removed the post.

 

Hinduism is a way of Life.

 

India Corporate Policy for LGBT.

 

It does not feel shy of addressing real issues of Life.

 

It understands the nature of Humans including their frailties and try to offer solutions.

 

By adopting an Ostrich like attitude, one faces on certain issues,  much more serious issues later that would arise because of this.

 

Problems are to be addressed to and not wished away, thinking that if we do not think about them , it would disappear.

 

There is this attitude of taking no decision, a modern western concept of course,justifying that the problem would solve itself.

 

True, but the solution need not be to our liking and at times may even harmful.

 

I have not taken the trouble of finding statistics of LGBT in India, ,especially Community wise.

 

It is likely to be incorrect as this is a sensitive and too personal an issue to be divulged.

 

Strength in numbers does not diminish the gravity of the problem.

 

About a year back two issues of m friends were referred to me, regarding their family problem, so sensitive the could not discuss with their relatives.

 

Well, you do not discuss sensitive issues with relatives, only with friends who  have no stakes.

 

My friend’s son((34)got married to a girl from an orthodox family.

 

The boy is well settled and the girl was very nice, working in a MNC.

 

The girl was a Lesbian.

 

This, she disclosed to her husband, after a couple of days of marriage to her husband.

 

This she told him that she was had been scared to inform her  parents and she had a girl friend from US.

 

The boy wrestled with this problem and he informed me.

 

Many among the younger generation , boys and girls,open up with me about intimate problems, though , b age , I am like their Father.

 

I took up the issue very gingerly with the girl first and later with the Boy’s parents.

 

It took some time for m friend to come back to normalcy.

 

I informed him, he was very orthodox, that this an accident of Nature and one should ensure that two lives are not ruined.

 

Our Religious texts inform us these problems and suggest we take appropriate action to ensure that no one is affected.

 

He came around.

 

After discussing the issue with the girl’s parents,a Divorce b mutual consent was organised( the reason as disclosed in Camera in the Family Court).

 

The girl went to US to be with her Girl friend in the US.

 

The Boy is  married again, after disclosing the details to  the would be bride and her parents.

 

The Boy’s first wife came from US and corroborated the facts to the would be bride and her parents.

 

The boy is happily married and has a son.

 

A similar case was in respect of Gay.

 

Here the marriage was stopped.

 

Elders should not wish away the problem.

 

It is tricky in Hindu communities, notwithstanding the elopement in many a case.

 

Children still are respectful for their parents and are shy of discussing their intimate problems.

 

It would be prudent , before arranging marriage, boys and girls, talk to them and wherever necessary , get to know their friends and get information very discreetly.

 

This would help a lot of problems that might arise later.

 

This applies to issues concerning Transvestites as well .

 

 

Related articles

• LGBT Hinduism Accepts Understands
• Principles Of Parenting In The Vedas Hinduism

LGBT Hinduism Accepts Understands

Hinduism accepts Eunuchs,Transvestite, Homosexuality,Lesbianism.Bisexuality as  Natural.

 

Ardhanareswara, Lord Krishna marrying Irvana,Arjuna becoming Bruhannala,Mandhafha being born of a Man,Chanda -Chamundi ,Bhagavathi,

 

LGBT and Hinduism Image Credit, http://lgbtbristol.org.uk/history-month/

 

Yellamma, the Birth of Lord Ayyapa.Lord Muruga are indicative of what is now termed as Normal Sexual Behavior.

 

In most cases it is explained that one takes the Form of he other sex,like Bruhannala, or Lord Krishna becomes a woman .

 

All said and done there is evidence that Hinduism did not treat this a s Deviant Behavior, it was not condescending towards them nor were they extended special privileges.

 

These were not ostracized by the society,nor were they looked upon condescendingly.

 

Rigveda says regarding Samsara that Vikruti Evam Prakriti (perversity/diversity is what nature is all about, or, what seems un-natural is also natural), which some scholars believe recognizes the cyclical constancy of homosexual/transsexual dimensions of human life, like all forms of universal diversities.^[38] People of a third gender (tritiya-prakriti), not fully men nor women, are mentioned here and there throughout Hindu texts such as the Puranas but are not specifically defined. In general they are portrayed as effeminate men, often cowardly, and with no desire for women. Modern readers often draw parallels between these and modern stereotypes of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender sexual identities.

 

However some Smritis censure them,like Manu, though ot severely.

 

They took part in all Vedic activities , they were not prohibited from Religious or Spiritual activity.

 

However the Vishnu Puran says hat the Eunuchs should not be present when one is performing Sradha.

 

So, Hinduism does not treat LGBT as Deviants, not dos it treat them with special privileges.

 

When looking at Human Nature and Facts Hinduism never flinches, ducks the issue or offer some farfetched justification.

 

For Hinduism things are They Are

 

Such is the greatness of Hinduism it accepts Nature as it is without delivering Value judgements on what is essentially a natural Phenomenon.

 

On Gays:

 

The Sangam literature on the Friendship between Pari and Kabilar says it is more than a friendship, clearly indication Homosexuality.

 

““For instance, the friendship between King Pari and poet Kabilar is shown as something more than just friendship. There are lyrical undertones suggestive of the intimate relationship they had. But since there are no explicit representation, one can only postulate a possibility.^[65]”

 

Although Hindu society does not formally acknowledge sexuality between men, it formally acknowledges and gives space to sexuality between men and third genders as a variation of male-female sex (i.e., a part of heterosexuality, rather than homosexuality, if analysed in Western terms). In fact, Hijras, Alis, Kotis, etc.— the various forms of third gender that exist in India today— are all characterized by the gender role of having receptive anal and oral sex with men. Sexuality between men (as distinct from third genders) has nevertheless thrived, mostly unspoken, informally, within men’s spaces, without being seen as ‘different’ in the way its seen in the West.^[4] As in other non-Western cultures, it is considered more or less a universal aspect of manhood, even if not socially desirable. It is the effeminate male sexuality for men (or for women) which is seen as ‘different,’ and differently categorised. Men often refer to their sexual play with each other as ‘masti.’^[5]”

 

”

Mathematician Shakuntala Devi, in her 1977 book, The World of Homosexuals, interviewed Srinivasa Raghavachariar, head priest of the Srirangam temple. He said that same-sex lovers must have been cross-sex lovers in a former life. The sex may change but the soul retains its attachments, hence the love impels these souls towards one another. In 2002, I interviewed a Shaiva priest who performed the marriage of two women; he told me that, having studied Hindu scriptures, he had concluded, “Marriage is a union of spirits, and the spirit is not male or female.”

As Amara Dasa, a Krishna devotee and founder of Gay and Lesbian Vaishnava Association (GALVA), notes in his recent book, Tritiya-Prakriti: People of the Third Sex, several Gaudiya Vaishnava authorities emphasize that since everyone passes through various forms, genders and species in a series of lives, we should not judge each other by the material body but view everyone equally on a spiritual plane, and be compassionate as God is.

Gay activist Ashok Row Kavi recounts that when he was studying at the Ramakrishna Mission, a monk told him the Mission was not a place to run away from himself, and that he should live boldly, ignoring social prejudice. Row Kavi went on to found the Indian gay magazine Bombay Dost. In 2004, Hindu right-wing leader K. Sudarshan denounced homosexuality. Row Kavi, identifying himself as “a faithful Hindu,” wrote an open letter to Sudarshan in the press. He asked Sudarshan to read ancient Hindu texts, and noted that modern homophobia is a Western import”.

 

Ancient Hindu law books, from the first century onwards, categorize ayoni (non-vaginal sex) as impure. But penances prescribed for same-sex acts are very light compared to penances for some types of heterosexual misconduct, such as adultery and rape. The Manusmriti exhorts a man who has sex with a man or a woman in a cart pulled by a cow, or in water or by day to bathe with his clothes on (11.174). The Arthashastra imposes a minor fine on a man who has ayoni sex (4.13.236). Modern commentators misread the Manusmriti’s severe punishment of a woman’s manual penetration of a virgin (8.369-70) as anti-lesbian bias. In fact, the punishment is exactly the same for either a man (8.367) or a woman who does this act, and is related not to the partners’ genders but to the virgin’s loss of virginity and marriageable status. The Manusmriti does not mention a woman penetrating a non-virgin woman, and the Arthashastra prescribes a negligible fine for this act. The sacred epics and the Puranas (fourth to fourteenth-century compendia of devotional stories) contradict the law books; they depict Gods, sages, and heroes springing from ayoni sex. Unlike sodomy, ayoni sex never became a major topic of debate or an unspeakable crime. There is no evidence of anyone in India ever having been executed for same-sex relations.”

 

Lesbianism.

There are other ancient Hindu/Sanskrit texts that refer to homosexuality. The Sushruta Samhita, for example, a highly respected Hindu medical text dating back to at least 600 B.C., mentions two different types of homosexual men (kumbhika – men who take the passive role in anal sex; and asekya – men who devour the semen of other men) as well as transgenders (sandha – men with the qualities, behavior and speech of women). It also states that men who behave like women, or women who behave like men, are determined as such at the time of their conception in the womb. (SS 3.2.42–43)^[54] The Sushruta Samhita also mentions the possibility of two women uniting and becoming pregnant as a result of the mingling of their sexual fluids. It states that the child born of such a union will be “boneless.” Such a birth is indeed described in the Krittivasa Ramayana of Bengal ”

 

The Kama Sutra also refers to svairini, who are “independent women who frequent their own kind or others” (2.8.26) — or, in another passage: “the liberated woman, or svairini, is one who refuses a husband and has relations in her own home or in other houses” (6.6.50). In a famous commentary on the Kama Sutra from the 12th century, Jayamangala, explains: “A woman known for her independence, with no sexual bars, and acting as she wishes, is called svairini. She makes love with her own kind. She strokes her partner at the point of union, which she kisses.” (Jayamangala on Kama Sutra 2.8.13). The various practices of lesbians are described in detail within the Second Part, Eighth Chapter of the Kama Sutra”

 

Citations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_topics_and_Hinduism#Religious_art

 

http://www.galva108.org/hinduism.html

 

 

 

Related articles

• Homosexuality and Hinduism – Ruth Vanita

1000 Children Prophet’s Descendent?

Prophet Mohammed‘s descendent sired 1000 children, a new report indicates.

Moulay Had 1000 children

”

Any suspicion of adultery against Ismaïl was severely punished. The women were either strangled by the sultan himself, or their breasts were cut off, or their teeth torn out. Men who merely looked at one of his wives or concubines were punished by death.

 

According to the Guinness Book of World Records, Ismaïl fathered 888 children, the greatest number of progeny for anyone throughout history that can be verified. Based on reports by Dominique Busnot, a French diplomat who frequently traveled to Morocco, the sultan may actually have had 1,171 children from four wives and 500 concubines by 1704. At that time, Ismaïl was 57 and had ruled for 32 years…

Ismaïl, who reigned from 1672 to 1727, was the first great sultan of the Moroccan Alaouite dynasty, the current royal house of the kingdom. He was Sharifian — that is, he claimed descent from Muhammad, the founder of Islam.

Ismaïl’s rule was the longest in Moroccan history, and toward its end he controlled the country with an army of more than 150,000 men. Ismaïl was infamously ruthless — his reign is said to have begun with the display of 400 heads at the city of Fez, most of them from enemy chiefs, and over the next 55 years it is estimated he killed more than 30,000 people, not including those in battle.”

We were as conservative as possible with our calculations, and Moulay could still achieve this outcome,” study lead author Elisabeth Oberzaucher, an anthropologist at the University of Vienna, told Live Science.

The simulations were based on a variety of models of conception. For instance, one set of simulations assumed the menstrual cycles of women do not synchronize, while another suggested they could. Other factors included how good Ismail’s sperm were at fertilizing women’s eggs as he aged and how women often may look more sexually attractive when they are most fertile during their menstrual cycles.

The simulations suggest Ismaïl needed to have sex an average of 0.83 to 1.43 times per day in order to father 1,171 children in 32 years. Moreover, the sultan did not need a harem of four wives and 500 concubines to sire that many offspring — the researchers suggest he needed a harem of only 65 to 110 women.”

Source:

http://news.discovery.com/history/how-moroccan-ruler-could-sire-1000-kids-revealed-140226.htm

Related articles

• Sultan of Schwing: How Moroccan Ruler Could Sire 1,000 Kids Revealed
• Prophet Mohammad Did Not Exist ? Quran