Tag: Mahabharata

Was Lord Krishna an Irresponsible Father?


I have received a comment on Lord Krishna being an irresponsible father, asking me for an explanation.

I have reproduced the comment towards the close of the article.

The comment has two parts.

One,Lord Krishna being an irresponsible father

and

Upbringing of children today.

Hinduism is a practical Religion.

It understands obligations and also the limitations of people in changing others,even it be they are of your Blood.

Before understanding the behaviour of Lord Rama, Krishna,one must understand the approach of Hinduism on Patenting.

It does not accord Parenting any special place or does it ignore it.

It treats as a routine affair of Life and treats is such…..

It considers all these as a Natural process and one need not be overly concerned about this as such.

The Vedas offer basic Guide lines.

1.Dharmachara, Righteous Conduct.

Behavior should be according to the Dharma, Moral Principle.

Parents are expected to behave he way they expect their children to behave towards them or others when they become adults.

Parents are prohibited from using vulgar language or the use of harsh words in front of their children.

2.Dharma Svagriha.

Worship at Home.

Parents should set an examples of following the Anushtaanas laid down for them in the Shastras.

Parenting in Hinduism

Beyond these guidelines one does not find anything much about Parenting in Hinduism.

Apart from laying the foundation to be a good Human being,by setting a personal example and sending to a a teacher of impeccable character and learning,parents in Hinduism do not interfere.

There is a saying in Dharma SASTRA.

‘Treat your son as

A King till till Five,

Treat as a slave till 15, and as

A friend thereafter.

Stages of Life in an individual is classified into four.

Brahmacharya,the Celibate stage,

Gruhastha, Married Stage,

Vanaprastha,Stage of leaving the family affairs to the eldest and leaving for Forest to meditate on Reality with spouse if she desires, and

Sanyasa,total Renunciation.

Aware of the fact that one can not do much to change one’s Swabhava, Natural disposition,people limited themselves to what is possible and stopped at that.

They did not set impossible goals in Life, including changing others,even it be wife or children.

One performs as his Swabhava.

This is reflected in ancient social life.

Take Lord Ram’s case.

He obeyed his parents unconditionally.

He loved his relatives,be it Lakshman or Bharatha.

He was accessible to his devotees, like Hanuman.

He was harsh towards his enemies,Ravana.

Yet the reason for all this is Dharma, loosely translated as Righteousness.

Rama performed all these actions so long as they were in conformity with Dharma.

The moment an instance is against Dharma,he would not hesitate to be against people whom he loves dearest.

He sent a pregnant Sita Away from home, because there was a slur,though he knew it was false.

He resorted to this step as as A King His Dharma is to set an example for His subjects however painful the act could be for him

He fought against his sons and Hanuman as it would be a bad example as a King to have his children and devotee to raise against him , however justified they might have been from their standpoint.

Once the issue was resolved he took them back.

Dharma was the cardinal principle and not relationships.

Relationships belong to Apara Vidya stage,lower Knowledge.

Para Supreme knowledge is by following scriptures and Dharma.

While Rama followed Karma Yoga,the Path of Knowledge thus,Lord Krishna belongs to another Higher level in performing Karma.

Rama had a conscious goal while performing can action and was looking forward to its results being favourable to him, Krishna had no such thoughts.

He performed an action because it ought to be performed, period.

It did not matter to Krishna who ruled Among Pandavas or Kauravas,both being his relatives:he would not an inch of land from either of them or any other favour,not that Krishna needed anything from anyone!

Yet he took the side of Pandavas for it was Dharma to be with just cause.

Krishna practiced what he preached in Bhagavad-Gita.

Renouncing the determination of the fruits of His actions.

Karma Sankalpa Thyaga.

Lord Rama was not in the same league,he practised one aspect of Karma Yoga.

As to Samba.

The incidents narrated are found in The Vishnu Purana as well.

One additional information.

After Samba was cursed, the Rishis came to Krishna and sought His forgiveness for their act in cursing his son,Samba.

Krishna replied,

‘ Why do you worry?

You have done your Dharma.

I should reap the consequence of my action in Rama Avatar,of killing Vaali from Behind a tree.

I should face the consequences for that.

The Yadava Vamsa is growing by leaps and bounds and it should stop to reduce the weight,Basra of Bhoomi,earth.

And I should have an excuse to shed this Body.

You have obliged me by cursing Samba’

That’s it.

While we remember Samba,who was a bad apple,how many know of Pradyumna Krishna’s other son,who was valiant and built a city in Port Barzhyn in Russia,which has been found?

Everyone has one’s destiny.

Shall write on present day parenting.

The comment I received.

Namaste. Devdutt patnaik is raising questions as below. Need help to respond pls.
One of the most disturbing stories that we find in the Puranas is the story of Krishna’s son Samba, whose mother was the bear-princess, Jambavati.

He dupes his father’s junior wives by disguising himself as Krishna and is cursed by Krishna that he will suffer from a skin disease that will enable his wives to distinguish father and son. Samba is cured after he builds temples to the sun. All sun temples in India, from Konark in Odisha to Modhera in Gujarat to Markand in Kashmir, are attributed to this son of Krishna.

Samba also attempts to kidnap Duryodhana’s daughter and this leads to war between the Kauravas and the Yadavas. Peace is restored, and the marriage is solemnised, only after Balarama, Krishna’s elder brother, and Samba’s uncle, in a fit of fury threatens to drag Hastinapur into the sea.

Then there is the story of Samba pretending to be a pregnant woman and duping sages who were visiting Dwaraka. They sages were not amused and cursed Samba that he would give birth to an iron mace that would be responsible for the end of the Yadu clan.

Must not Krishna’s son be as noble and divine and wise and loving as Krishna? But that is not so. Samba comes with his own personality and his own destiny over which Krishna has no influence. Or does he?

Can we wonder if Samba was a product of his father’s neglect? For was not Krishna spending most of his time with Arjuna and the Pandavas and in the politics of Kuru-kshetra?

There are hardly any stories of Krishna as father. He is friend, philosopher and guide to Arjuna, but the only stories of father and son are of tension, rage and violence.

In conversations about corporates, we often forget about the other half of our lives, the personal one. As more and more people are working 24×7, thanks to Internet, and smart devices, the lines between professional and personal, work and life are getting blurred. In fact, people feel noble when they sacrifice family for work and guilty when they take a holiday to take care of their family.

Family is not seen as achievement. Children are not seen as purpose. They are seen as obligations, duties, by-products of existence, even collateral damage.

We admire leaders who sacrifice family for a ‘larger’ cause. Like freedom fighters who neglect their wives and children. Like business men and entrepreneurs and consultants who spend most of their time in office.

With the rise of feminism, women are also working. Parenting has been outsourced to maids, teachers, computers, videogames and grandparents.

Women who work in the office have not been compensated by their husbands spending more time at home. Instead women are made to feel guilty for not being good mothers. No one questions men for not being good fathers. Eventually, the office wins. Absent parents rationalise how office is more important than the children: we need the money, the children eventually grow up, surely our needs are also important.

Many great Krishnas in the workplace discover that they have nurtured Samba at home: sons who either follow destructive paths as they seek attention, or sons who make their way away from parents, as they have grown used to not having them around. Who wins?

Corporates were supposed to create wealth for the family. Now families are creating only workers for the corporates.

We have many more Krishnas in this generation and maybe many Sambas in the next.

As written *By Devdutt Pattanaik*

Thought Provoking …

👆

Jambudweepa,

Mankind History Dates Much  Earlier Hinduism Validated By Science


Bronze Age cultures differed in their development of the first writing. According to archaeological evidence, cultures in Mesopotamia (cuneiform) and Egypt (hieroglyphs) developed the earliest viable writing systems.’

It maybe noted that Vecic period,Mesopotamia,,Anatolia,Caucasus,Egyptian civilizations Have been taken into account.

The assigned date on these studies for the Vedas is around 1800 BC!

This despite the fact that Lord Rama’sdate has been proved at 5114 BC.

And consider these facts.

Thiruvannamalai,TamilNadu,India has been dated at around 3.94 billion years.

Tirupati is dated around 2100 million years.

JWALAPURAM,Cuaddapah ,India is dated 74,000years ago.

Kalpa Vigraha of Vishnu.

Radiocarbon (C14) dating conducted by the University of California Radiation Laboratory on the heavy 9-inch thick timber sides and lid of the chest in which it was discovered arrived at readings that indicated a period around 26,450 BCE. 

 

That would make it over 28,450 years old today, and about 23,300 years older than the legendary Hindu Kurukshetra war. 

 

The idol was also tested by experts who concluded that it was the oldest Hindu idol in existence.’

The Human foot Print in Tirupati is Man_made and is dated around 2100 million years.

Apart from this records of Mu Civilization,Mayan and Aztec Civilizations have SAnatana Dharma/ Tamil connection and these were the ancestors of these civilizations.

Then we have geologiacl proof based on tectonic plates movements that confirm the super continents of Rodina,Pangeaand others.

Interesting fact is that these land masses were described in the Hindu texts in detail.

Not only this..

The flora and fauna described in Hindu texts confirm the details found in the study of these super continents.

Then we have refernces to Lord Rama engaged in war with the Atlantic people.

There were four Empires during the period of Rama.

They were,

Atlantis,

Vasishtas Fourteen Dravidian Tribes Greeks Chinese Huns


As one researches Indian history , one finds innumerable references to Yavanas(Greeks),Sakas, Nagas,Hunas….

While we dig deep we find these groups listed as tribes of Bharatavarsha.

The Pashupati seal from the Indus Valley Civilization.image,jpg
The Pashupati seal from the Indus Valley Civilization. 2600–1900 BCE

These references are found from the Rig Veda , the earliest  text of the world and these are repeatedly mentioned in the Ramayana, Mahabharata, Eighteen Puranas, Tamil Sangam Classics, Kalidasa’s Harivamsa and in Kalhana’s Raja Tharangini, among other texts belonging to other Regional languages of India.

I am providing a sample list and a link to my article on the Vedic Tribes of India.

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2015/06/19/tamils-vedic-tribes-yadus-turvasas-rig-veda/

I have found some curious facts.

1. Sage Vasshista though listed as the Royal Priest of the Ikshvaku, the Solar Dynasty to which Lord Rama belongs to i mentioned prominently during the period of Dasaratha and Rama and briefly during the period of Ikshvaku when he founded the Dynasty’ Vashista does not find a detailed mention from the period of Ikshvaku and Dasaratha.

The reference to Vashista along with Ikshvaku is found in the Bhagavatha Purana where it is mentioned that Ikshvaku left the Dravida Desa, South of Vindhya mountains for Ayodhya from where he founded his dynasty.

He left for Ayodhya because of a Tsunami referred to in detail by the Puranas and Tamil classics.

The great Flood is mentioned in all ancient texts both religious and non religious.

Other than these  references  Vashista is missing in the texts.

Next we hear of him as having accompanied Shiva  to compose the Rig Veda in the Arctic.

2.We find Sage Agastya moving over to South on two occasions, one at the time of Shiva Uma wedding and again to lead 71 Families out of Dwaraka when Tsunami struck after the Mahabharata War to the south of Vindhyas,

Please check my articles on this and Agastya’s date has been validated by Star Canopus.

3.Parashurama settled families in the south from the north.

Manu left for the north from the South, which means that there has been a civilization before he left.

There are references  in the Sumerian Kings List to Dasaratha, Rama and Bharatha s Kings of Sumeria.

Sumerian texts also mention that Rama aligned with  Horus, son of Osiris.

Rama Atlantis War Kavatam periplus Port Window of Lemuria

As explained in these articles, there seems to have been Four major civilizations then.

Rama’s Empire,

Atlantis Empire,

Uighur Empire and

Lemurian Empire.

Of these Uighur was not very advanced and Lemuria which had been on the wane was trying to recoup.

They were suppressed by the Atlantis people.

In the Atlantis, Osiris’ son Horus entered into an alliance with Rama to defeat Seth who was trying to become independent in the Sumerian valley.’

Ramas war against Atlantis

So there was a civilization in south before Manu left for Ayodhya from the Dravida Desa.

Then Viswamitra reference is found in the Ramayana and other Indian texts and also the life of Nala and Damayanti and these three ante date Rama.

Rama’s ancestor Sibi fought against the Dravida tribes and built a temple for Vishnu  at Thiruvellarai, near SriRangam in Tamil Nadu and this temple is older than Srirangam.

Then there is a detailed  description of the battle between Viswamitra and Vasishta when the former tried to take away the Cow Nandini from Vashista.

The concept of taking away the Cattle is a common to both the Tamil  and Vedic Culture.

In Virata parva of Mahabharata, Duryodhana tries to take away the cattle from Virata and the Pandavas fought against him along with Virata.

The tribes that aligned with Vashista against Viswamitra are,

‘Mahabharata links the origin of Dravidas with sage Vasistha. Viswamitra, a king in the Ikshwaku clan, attacked the cow of Vasistha. Then many armies emerged for the protection of that cow and they attacked the armies of Viswamitra. Cow symbolizes land, in ancient Indian scriptures. Thus this war was fought with the tribes allied with Vasista for their own land. Other tribes that were mentioned along with the Dravidas in this incident were Sakas, Yavanas, Savaras, Kanchis, Paundras and Kiratas, Yavanas and Sinhalas, and the barbarous tribes of Khasas, Chivukas, Pulindas, Chinas and Hunas with Keralas, and numerous other Mlechchhas. (1,177)…

The Indus Valley civilisation (2,600-1,900 BCE) located both in Pakistan and India is often identified as having been Dravidian. Cultural and linguistic similarities have been cited by researchers Henry Heras, Kamil Zvelebil, Asko Parpola and Iravatham Mahadevan as being strong evidence for a proto-Dravidian origin of the ancient Indus Valley civilisation.[The discovery in Tamil Nadu of a late Neolithic (early 2nd millennium BCE, i.e. post-dating Harappan decline) stone celt allegedly marked with Indus signs has been considered by some to be significant for the Dravidian identification.

Yuri Knorozov surmised that the symbols represent a logosyllabic script and suggested, based on computer analysis, an underlying agglutinative Dravidian language as the most likely candidate for the underlying language. Knorozov’s suggestion was preceded by the work of Henry Heras, who suggested several readings of signs based on a proto-Dravidian assumption.

Linguist Asko Parpola writes that the Indus script and Harappan language are “most likely to have belonged to the Dravidian family”.Parpola led a Finnish team in investigating the inscriptions using computer analysis. Based on a proto-Dravidian assumption, they proposed readings of many signs, some agreeing with the suggested readings of Heras and Knorozov (such as equating the “fish” sign with the Dravidian word for fish, “min”) but disagreeing on several other readings. A comprehensive description of Parpola’s work until 1994 is given in his book Deciphering the Indus Script’

I Postulate that,

There was a Dravida Civilization in the South before or started with Manu in the south of Vindhyas,

The tribes of Dravidas were left behind by Manu when he left for Ayodhya,

Sage Vasista stayed in the South,

Later when Viswamitra banished his sons to the south, Dravida civilization was in existence during the Ramayana period,

Dravidians were called as Dasyus because of their way of Life was different from Sanatana Dharam though they followed the Sanatana Dharma.

These Dravidian tribes included the ancestors of Greeks, other European tribes, Chinese and Huns.

I have written on the presence of  lord Shiva in the south much earlier to vedic period.

I shall explore further and write on the location and dispersal and seeming acrimony with the vedic people, the reasons and Shiva’s Travels throughout the world,

References and citations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravida_Kingdom#Dravida_listed_in_the_ancient_Indian_.28Bharata_Varsha.29_Kingdoms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dravidian_people#Ancestral_components

Manu Dravida

Pasupathy Seal Image credit.

By unknown Indus Valley Civilization sealmaker from Mohenjodaro archaeological site – http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00routesdata/bce_500back/indusvalley/protoshiva/protoshiva.jpg, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=9325528

Bengal 25000 Years Dravida Pre Date Rama


I have, in many articles, mentioned that the history of Bharatavarsha can be understood properly  only if one sheds the regional approach, that is of trying to prove that one region or a linguistic group is older than the others.

Artifact of Bengal
India, West Bengal, Murshidabad, late 19th century Sculpture Ivory 24 3/8 x 42 x 6 1/2 in. (61.91 x 106.68 x 16.51 cm) Gift of Cynthia and Ken Boettcher, Laguna Niguel, California (M.82.154) South and Southeast Asian Art Currently on public view: Ahmanson Building, floor 4

Bharatavarsha was so vast that it encompassed nearly the whole world as can be seen in Rama’s Empire, that it did not matter as to which region spoke which language.

As I have written they had Prakrit as a common language, with Sanskrit forming the literary base and the regional language determined locally.

They used Pali language as well.

The influence of Prakrit, Pali and Sanskrit can be seen in all the languages of India.

Over some languages these three exerted more influence and in some very negligible.

One you would find the influence of these languages to be the least to the extent as to be almost nil as in Tamil where structure  of the Language is totally at variance with all Indian Languages.

Yet they formed a part of Sanatana Dharma.

The Tamils and the Sanatana Dharma coexisted through out history, contrary to what the say in the Aryan Invasion Theory.

Please read my articles on this.

The Tamils had a flourishing civilization during the period of Ramayana and in fact preceded the Ramayana as one finds reference to Sibi, aancestor of Rama in Tamil and a temple built by him is near Srirangam, Tamil Nadu.

The temple at Tiruvellarai is dedicated to Lord Vishnu and it was built when he subjugated the tribes in the south.

And Rama’s ancestor Vaivaswataha Manu migrated fro the south to Ayodhya when the south was struck bu a Tsunami, recorded in Tamil Sangam Literature and in the Bhagavatha and Vishnu Puranas.

While one group led by Manu left for Ayodhya , another left, under Shiva, Ganesha and Vasihsta to wards the west through middle east.

The third one left towards the east of India , led by Subrahmanya, called Murugan.

A part of this group seems to have moved towards the area of Gangetic plains of Bengal, Bangla.

I had written a detailed article on the Dravidian origin of Bengalis.

Bengal region was founded by Vanga

‘The founders of five eastern kingdoms, which included: Angas, Vangas, Kalingas, Pundras and Suhmas shared a common ancestry. They were all adopted sons of a king named Vali (Bali), born by a sage named Gautama Dirghatamas, who lived in Magadha close to the city of Girivraja.

References in Mahabharata.

At (6:9) the Angas, the Vangas and the Kalingas were mentioned as close kingdoms in Bharata Varsha (Ancient India). All regions of sacred waters and all other holy palaces there were in Vanga and Kalinga, Arjuna visited all of them, during his pilgrimage lasting for 12 years throughout the ancient India.

The founders of five eastern kingdoms, which included: Angas, Vangas, Kalingas, Pundras and Suhmas shared a common ancestry. They were all adopted sons of a king named Vali (Bali), born by a sage named Gautama Dirghatamas, who lived in Magadha close to the city of Girivraja….

The kings of Anga, Vanga and Pundra were mentioned as attending the court of Yudhishthira at (2:4). The Vangas, Angas, Paundras, Odras, Cholas, Dravidas and Andhrakas were mentioned to be giving tribute to Yudhishthira (3:51). The Angas, the Vangas, the Punras, the Sanavatyas, and the Gayas—these good and well-born Kshatriyas distributed into regular clans and trained to the use of arms, brought tribute unto king Yudhishthira by hundreds and thousands. The Vangas, the Kalingas, the Magadhas, the Tamraliptas, the Supundrakas, the Dauvalikas, the Sagarakas, the Patrornas, the Saisavas, and innumerable Karnapravaranas, were found waiting at the gate (2:51)’

AlDng with dravidas, the Vangas. were called as Dasyus, because they  differed with the Sanatna Dharma on some  practices.

As the Vangas fought against Krishna, they were treated by the central India Sanatana Dharma as enemies.

And the Vangas took the side of Kaurvas in the Mahabharata War.

Vanga army was skilled in handling war elephants. They sided with the Kauravas.

Vangas sided with Duryodhana in the Kurukshetra War (8:17) along with the Kalingas. They are mentioned as part of the Kauravaarmy at (7:158). Many foremost of combatants skilled in elephant-fight, belonging to the Easterners, the Southerners, the Angas, the Vangas, the Pundras, the Magadhas, the Tamraliptakas, the Mekalas, the Koshalas, the Madras, the Dasharnas, the Nishadas united with the Kalingas (8:22). Satyaki, pierced the vitals of the elephant belonging to the king of the Vangas (8:22)

It may be noted that the Nishadas were with the Kalingas.

Nishadas are Hunter tribe.

Guha who offered hospitality to Lord Rama on Rama’s exile was a Nishada.

Nishadas were from the Dravidian tribe from the present Kerala region.

Shiva is called Nishada and there is a temple of Shiv as Kiradha in Kerala.

Origin of the word Bangla.

The exact origin of the word Bangla is unknown, though it is believed to be derived from the Dravidian-speaking tribe Bang/Banga that settled in the area around the year 1000 BCE. Other accounts speculate that the name is derived from Venga (Bôngo), which came from the Austric word “Bonga” meaning the Sun-god. According to the Mahabharata, a number of Puranas and the Harivamsha Vanga was one of the adopted sons of King Vali who founded the Vanga Kingdom. It was either under Magadh or under Kalinga Rules except few years under Pals.The Muslim accounts refer that “Bong”, a son of Hind (son of Hām who was a son of Prophet Noah/Nooh) colonised the area for the first time.[ The earliest reference to “Vangala” (Bôngal) has been traced in the Nesari plates (805 AD) of Rashtrakuta Govinda III which speak of Dharmapala as the king of Vangala. The records of Rajendra Chola I of the Chola dynasty, who invaded Bengal in the 11th century, speak of Govindachandra as the ruler of Vangaladesa. Shams-ud-din Ilyas Shah took the title “Shah-e-Bangla” and united the whole region under one government.

An interesting theory of the origin of the name is provided by Abu’l-Fazl in his Ain-i-Akbari. According to him, “[T]he original name of Bengal was Bung, and the suffix “al” came to be added to it from the fact that the ancient rajahs of this land raised mounds of earth 10 feet high and 20 in breadth in lowlands at the foot of the hills which were called “al”. From this suffix added to the Bung, the name Bengal arose and gained currency

‘Stone Age tools dating back 20,000 years have been excavated in the state.[15] Remnants of Copper Age settlements in the Bengal region date back 4,000 years.[16] The original settlers spoke non-Aryan languages— they may have spoken Austric or Austro-Asiatic languages like the languages of the present-day Kola, Bhil, Santhal, Shabara, and Pulinda people. At a subsequent age, peoples speaking languages from two other language families— Dravidian and Tibeto-Burman—seem to have settled in Bengal. Archaeological discoveries during the 1960s furnished evidence of a degree of civilisation in certain parts of Bengal as far back as the first millennium BC..

.Some references indicate that the primitive people in Bengal were different in ethnicity and culture from the Vedic people beyond the boundary of Aryandom and who were classed as “Dasyus”. The Bhagavata Purana classes them as sinful people while Dharmasutra of Baudhayana prescribes expiatory rites after a journey among the Pundras and Vangas. Mahabharata speaks of Paundraka Vasudeva who was lord of the Pundras and who allied himself with Jarasandha against Krishna. The Mahabharata also speaks of Bengali kings called Chitrasena and Sanudrasena who were defeated by Bhima and Kalidasa mentions Raghu defeating a coalition of Vanga kings.

‘ A thalassocracy and an entrepôt of the historic Silk Road, Ancient Bengal established colonies on Indian Ocean islands and in Southeast( Naval Power) Asia

As Raghu is the ancestor of Rama and ancient Tamil site Poompuhar which talks about Mahabharta , Krishna and Vangas and Kalingas, it stands to reason that Bengal, which includes the present Bangladesh  is at least 25,000 years old, predate Rama and the people were a part of Dravidas.

 

References and citations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanga_Kingdom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Bengal#Pre-historic_Bengal

Image credit.

By Image: http://collections.lacma.org/sites/default/files/remote_images/piction/ma-31967667-O3.jpgGallery: http://collections.lacma.org/node/243991, Public Domain, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=27292375

 

 

 

Kerala Nairs 18000 Years Old Nairs Gotra


 A reader wanted me t know the Gotra details of the Nairs of Kerala.

This is a complex issue.

Nairs , Kerala
Warriors of Kerala

If one removes the Goggles of regionalism and linguistic chauvinism, one can understand Indian history in its splendor.

Though the people of Kerala formed a part of Tamil kingdom Chera, the Nairs of Kerala had a social system of their own.

Nair comes from the word Nayaka meaning chieftain or a leader.

They were the leaders of a group of army of the Cheras.

‘The Nambudiri Brahmins were at the top of the ritual caste hierarchy and in that system outranked even the kings. They regarded all Nairs as shudra. Below the Nambudiris came the Tamil Brahmins and other later immigrants of the Brahmin varna. Beyond this, the precise ranking is subject to some difference in opinion. Kodoth has placed the Samantan caste below the Kshatriya rank but above the Nairs, but Gough considers that the Pushpagans and Chakyars, both of which were the highest ranked in the group of temple servants known as Ambalavasis, were ranked between the Brahmins and the Nairs, as were several other members of the Ambalavasi group. She also believes that some Nairs adopted the title of Samantan in order to emphasise their superiority over others in their caste. The unwillingness of the higher varnas to engage in what they considered to be the polluting activities of industrial and commercial activity has been cited as a reason for the region’s relatively limited economic development’

‘A theory has been proposed for the origins of the caste system in the Kerala region based on the actions of the Aryan Jains introducing such distinctions prior to the 8th-century AD. This argues that the Jains needed protection when they arrived in the area and recruited sympathetic local people to provide it. These people were then distinguished from others in the local population by their occupation as protectors, with the others all being classed as out-caste. The cross-disciplinary historian Cyriac Pullapilly describes that this meant they “… were given kshatriya functions, but only shudra status. Thus originated the Nair

Taking into consideration the caste  system of Sanatana Dharma was practiced by The Tamils , Cheras were Tamils,there was no discrimination in the Tamil land on the basis of caste , the views by western authors seem to be based on the Myth of Aryan dDravidian Theory which is now proved to be false and is a piece of disinformation to divide the people of India.

The fact that the Group who are currently called as Nairs were entrusted with Military duties , they were Kshatriyas.

The Nairs, Chera Period.

Some people think the name itself is derived from nayaka, an honorific meaning “leader of the people”, while others believe it stems from the community’s association with the Naga cult of serpent worship. Christopher Fuller, an anthropologist, has said that it is likely that the first reference to the Nair community was made by Pliny the Elder in his Natural History, dating from 77 AD. That work describes what is probably the Malabar coast area wherein could be found the “Nareae, who are shut in by the Capitalis range, the highest of all the mountains in India”. Fuller believes it probable that the Nareae referred to the Nairs and the Capitalis range is the Western Ghats.’

Matrilineal Society.

Nairs operated a matrilineal (marumakkathayam) joint family structure called tharavad, whereby descendant families of one common ancestress lived under a single roof. Tharavads consisting of 50 to 80 members were not uncommon and some with membership as high as 200 have been reported. Only the women lived in the main house; men lived in separate rooms[clarification needed] and, on some occasions, lived in a separate house nearby. The families split on instances when they became unwieldy and during crisis among its members. When it split, the family property was separated along the female lines. The karnavan, the oldest male member in the tharavad, had the decision-making authority including the power to manage common property. Panikkar, a well-known writer from the Nair community, wrote in 1918 that,

Authority in the family is wielded by the eldest member, who is called karnavan. He has full control of the common property, and manages the income very much as he pleases. He arranges marriages (sambandhams) for the boys as well as the girls of the family. He had till lately full power (at least in practice) of alienating anything that belonged to them. His will was undisputed law. This is, perhaps, what is intended to be conveyed by the term Matri-potestas in communities of female descent. But it should be remembered that among the Nayars the autocrat of the family is not the mother, but the mother’s brother.

The husband visited the tharavad at night and left the following morning and he had no legal obligation to his children which lay entirely with the karnavan. In Nair families, young men and women about the same age were not allowed to talk to each other, unless the young man’s sister was considerably older than him. The wife of karnavan had an unusual relationship in his tharavad as she belonged to a different one and her interests lay there. Panikkar wrote that Karnavan loved his sister’s son more than his own and he believes it was due mainly to the instability of Nair marriages. Divorce rate was very high as both man and woman had equal right to terminate the marriage. Enangar was another family with which a tharavad remained closely related; a few such related families formed a social group whose members participated in all social activities. Nakane wrote in 1956 that tharavads as a functional unit had ceased to exist and large buildings that had once hosted large tharavads were occupied by just a few of its remnants.’

Being  a matrilinear society, the Gotra system must have been following the Mother’s Gotra.

Information is not available.

People may contribute with authenric source

The Nairs of Kerala and Bunts of Karnataka claim descent from the naga Śeṣa; these regions include the Nagavanshi clans who migrated from North India associated with the events referred to as the Sarpasatram. The Nairs were organized into various martial clans like Nambiar, Kiryathil Nair, Illathu Nair and Swaroopathil Nairs. The Illathu, Swaroopathil and Kiryathil Nairs have been classified as Kshatriyas of the Nagavanshi lineage Also claims as Nagavamsam in North costal region of Andhra pradesh state, where central government referred them under serial number 81 in NCBC (National Commission for Backward classed)

http://www.ncbc.nic.in/User_Panel/GazetteResolution.aspx?Value=mPICjsL1aLvYBtdZSrP4uO%2bploAhiJHMitEMCkgxxsH%2f7oa9L5Zf2o2HH3BmrgcE

However, Nairs believe them selves to Belong to Kasyapa Gotra.

‘Vansh/Dynasty : Nagavanshi
Gotra : Kashyapa
Caste : Kshatriya

The Nair Clans of Kerala and Bunts of tulu nadu are the indigenous descendants of Anantha also these regions include the Nagavanshi clans who migrated from North India associated with the events as Sarpasatram. The Nairs were organized into various martial clans like Nambiar and Kiryathil Nair. Currently, warrior Sections of the Nair (Malayala Kshatriya) caste and Bunts of Tulu nadu claim descent from the Nagvanshi dynasty. The Nagavanshi are the known as the Serpent Dynasty.

Nāgas originated from Kashyapa, father of Surya from whom clan of Suryawanshi kshatriyas evolved. The Nether World known as Pathala was the inhabitation of Nagas and Anantha as the Emperor of Naga, Sarpa, Uraga, and Pannaga. The Vedas do not mention Kshatriyas of either Suryavanshi, Chandravanshi, Nagavanshi, Agnivanshi or any such lineage. The Puranas constructed such genealogies. The Nāgvanshis acquired the status of Devas due to their excellent qualities, behavior and actions. Purānas mention Nāgas along with devas. Purānas mention of many Nāga Kingdoms. In ancient times Nāgas were the rulers of entire India. Mathura, Padmavati and Kantipur were capitals of Naga dynasty.

The worshipers of Nāga were supposedly known as Nāgā or Nāgil. Nair, Bunt and some Rajput and Jat clans claim to be of Nagvanshi origin.’

There are some interesting issues here.

1.People of north East India and some portions of central India belong to Nagavanshi.Now we find them in the deep south.

2.In ancient India, the landmass was different and the sea route from the North east of India to south of India was much shorter.

There are references that Ravana visited his In Laws place in central India frequently, his wife Mandodari was from India through this short route from Lanka.

So it needs some more research on this issue as to how the  migration took place, whether the Nagavanshis, who were also credited with having been the people of Patala Loka,deep south moved to North during the Great flood, when Vaivaswatha Manu, ancestor of Rama moved to Ayodhya.

3.The issue of the location of the Chera Capital Vanchi.

Considering this and the fact that Lemuria was the location of the early Tamil Kingdoms, I feel that the present theory that Karur was the Capital of Chera needs a look into.My stand is that it might have been located some where down in the Indian Ocean.

3.The present date assigned to Nairs and Kerala needs revision.

Chera King Udiyan Cheralatha,n particpated in the Mahabharata war.

Poompuhar,Tamil Nadu which speaks of Chera Kingdom, the author of Cilapadikaram was the king’s brother, and Poompuhar is dated 20,000 years ago it is safe to postulate that the Nairs of Kerala, who were in the army of the Cheras date back to some 18000 years ago

Shall dig more and write.

References and citations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nair#Social_and_political_organisation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chera_dynasty#Archaeological_sources

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nagavanshi

http://rajeshkvp.blogspot.in/2010/12/nair-gotra-lineage.html

Image credit.

http://historicalleys.blogspot.in/2009/08/on-origin-of-nairs.html

 

 

Sanatana Dharma Tamil Coexisted in Indus Valley Tamil Towns


The relationship between Tamil and Sanatana Dharma is intriguing.

Their relationship is one of cordiality , mutual respect and admiration for each other.

The Tamil Kings are spoken of highly in the Vedas and Puranas.

They were invited to the Swayamvara of. Damayanthi, who predates Lord Rama, Rama Sita marriage, Draupadi Swayamvara and Yudhistra’s Rajasuya Yaga.

Tamil King Udiyan Cherallathan provided food for both the Pandava and Kaurava armies during the Mahabharata War.

Sananat Dharma spread around he world
Vedic India

Madurai Meenakshi’s father Malayathdwaja participated in the Mahabharata war fighting along side the Pandavas.

Lord Krishna was invited to Tamil Poets ‘Conclave at Madurai(probably the Thenmadurai, now sunk) and he participated in it.

Krishna and Arjuna married Pandyan Princesses;Krishna had a daughter and had her married to a Pandyan Prince, while Arjuna had a son.

Krishna’s elder brother Balarama visited south and worshiped Lord Subrahmanya.

And of course Parashurama, who established the present Kerala.

Sage Viswamitra’s descendant  Apasthamba wrote the Veda Sutra called Apasthama Sutra by integrating Tamil practices like Thaali, Mangalya, which is not found in the Vedas.

Brahmins in the south of India follow Apasthamba sutra even today.

Rama’ ancestor Vaivaswatha Manu migrated from the south to Ayodhya to found Ikshvaku Dynasty.

Manu migrated to Ayodhya because of a Tsunami recorded in Tamil Classic, Sangam Literature.

So there should have been no presence of any dynasty in the north if we go by this hypothesis .

However there was a Chola king, who ruled from North, much before the great Flood.

He was King Sibi and Cholas call themselves the descendants of Kashyapa.

This Sibi is mentioned in Tamil Literature  and in Puranas a belonging to Suryavansh.

He built a temple near Srirangam in Tamil Nadu for Lord Vishnu.

It is the Thiruvellarai Pundareekakshar temple, about 20km from Srirangam

Sibi is reported to have fought an army of Asuras here.

Asuras mean powerful, yet evil intentioned.

King Sibi ruled from Pakistan?

And we have a a site of about a Million years in Chennai which belongs to advanced Tamil civilization.

Another one is at Adhichanallur which dates back to 11000 years.

Thee site  refer to Sanatana Dharma.

And Sanatana Dharma refer Tamils!

Tamil Brahmi is found in Harappa.

Tamil Sangam period Towns,harbor names are found in Indus Valley Civilization.

Thee names are.

Vanji, capital of Chera Kingdom,

Gorkai, in Afghanistan

a Pandya harbor, Matrai(Madurai), Urai(Uraiyur capital of Cholas), Koodal kat(kodal, name for Madurai),in Pakistan,

‘சிந்துவெளி மற்றும் அரப்பாவில் ”கொற்கை, வஞ்சி, தொண்டி வளாகம்”
சிந்துவெளியில் சங்கத் தமிழரின் துறைமுகங்கள், தலைநகரங்கள் மற்றும் ஊர்களின் பெயர்கள்
பாகிஸ்தானிலுள்ள கொற்கை (Gorkai. Gorkhai), வஞ்சி (Vanji), தொண்டி(Tondi), மத்ரை (Matrai), உறை (Urai), கூடல் கட் (Kudal Garh) மற்றும் கோளி (Koli); ஆப்கானிஸ்தானிலுள்ள கொற்கை (Korkay. Gorkay). பூம்பகார் (Pumbakar) ஆகிய ஊர்ப் பெயர்கள் சங்க இலக்கியங்களில் குறிப்பிடப்பட்டுள்ள தலைநகரங்கள் மற்றும் துறைமுக நகரங்களின் பெயர்களான கொற்கை. வஞ்சி. தொண்டி. மதுரை. உறையூர். கூடல். கோழி. பூம்புகார் ஆகியவற்றை நினைவுபடுத்துகின்றன.

Lord Rama, whose name is found in the  Sumerian King List as a King of Sumer,along with Dasaratha and Bharata, fought a war against Atlantis people to help Horus , on of Osiris,.

Leading Osiris’s Egyptian armies was Osiris’ eldest son Horus. After Osiris’ unfortunate ‘death’, Horus succeeded his father as king of the Libyan/Egyptian Empire. Intuitively, Horus knew what would happen when they landed in Libya. He completely distrusted his uncle. Horus persistently warned his father about Seth’s stubbornness and treachery. Osiris, believing in the goodness of the human heart, initially ignored his son’s advice. Subsequently, Osiris landed in Libya and after Seth’s abdication became Emperor’

After the demise of Osiris, his son Horus entered into a pact with Rama Empire(Emperor Zata’ar’s eldest son, Prince Rama.) to defeat Seth, the usurper.’

The Atlantis army met with Rama’s Army in Rishi City, now in Pakistan…..

There were four ancient empires.

Rama’s Empire,

Atlantis Empire,

Uighur Empire and

Lemurian Empire.

Of these Uighur was not very advanced and Lemuria which had been on the wane was trying to recoup.

They were suppressed by the Atlantis people.

In the Atlantis, Osiris’ son Horus entered into an alliance with Rama to defeat Seth who was trying to become independent in the Sumerian valley.

Rama Dropped Atom Bomb Mohenjo daro

This means that Mohenjo Daro was a flourishing civilization before the Rama War with Atlantis people.

Yet there was a  Chola King much before the advent of Rama.

The contention of Dr Parpola and the Dravidian politicians of Tamilnadu is that Tamils have descended form the IVC locations of North India. The verse by poet Kapilar in fact traces the origins of the King IrungoveL to Dwaraka. He says that he belonged to the 49th generation of the king who was born of the Sacrificial Fire conducted by the sage of the North. This king ruled Dwaraka, so says the poet. Reserving the other details of this verse for a future post, I am now concentrating on another description in that song.

( There is another interpretation on the interpretatiion of  the term Sacrificial fire

Kapilar describes Dwaraka as being surrounded by walls made of copper.

நீயே, வடபால் முனிவன் தடவினுள் தோன்றிச்,
செம்பு புனைந்து இயற்றிய சேண்நெடும் புரிசை,
உவரா ஈகைத், துவரை ஆண்டு,
நாற்பத்து ஒன்பது வழிமுறை வந்த
வேளிருள் வேளே!
This means “O king IrungoveL! you were the 49th king in the lineage of the king, who was born of the sacrificial fire conducted by the sage and ruled Dwarka which was surrounded by long / tall walls of copper.”

From the commentary that Dr U.Ve.Sa found out form the palm leaf manuscripts :-
“நீ தான் வட பக்கத்து முனிவனுடைய ஓம குண்டத்தின் கண் தோன்றிச் செம்பால் புனைத்து செய்தாலொத்த சேய்மையை உடைத்தாகிய நெடிய மதிலை உடைய துவராவதி என்னும் படை வீட்டை ஆண்டு, வெறுப்பில்லாத கொடையினை உடையராய் நாற்பத்தொன்பது தலைமுறை தொன்றுபட்டு வந்த வேள்களுள் வைத்து வேளாய்உள்ளாய்!”..

 ‘This king was not in Dwaraka when Kapilar met him and sang this verse. He was ruling some part of the western ghats in present day’s Karnataka. This Vel’s kingdom was different from the Tamil lands of the 3 kings (Chera, Chola and Pandya). The next verse was on the same king sung by Kapilar in which he describes his land in the hills.
This king’s palace was not surrounded by walls of copper. Copper walls were there in the kingdom of his ancestors in Dwaraka.Assuming that 3 kings lived per century, we can say that 1600 years have passed by the time this 49th king had come into being. The period of this king is not exactly known, but can be deciphered from Kapilar’s other connections. Kapilar was a close friend of another VeL king, Paari who was killed by the 3 Tamil kings. Kapilar took care of Parri’s orphaned daughters and approached another Vel king, IrungoveL to request him to marry the two daughters of Paari. This verse contains that request.

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2016/01/28/irungovel-tamil-king-and-hoysalas-founder-the-same/

 So there seems to be a Dynasty belonging to Suryavansh in the North and it declined or swallowed by Tsunami from the Arabian Sea, this could have  either the second or the  first Great flood mentioned in the Tamil Classics.

And we have references to Sage Agastya, settling the people from the sinking Dwaraka  in Tamil Nadu and the present Karnataka.

Considering all this I proposed that there could have been two Tamil Empires.

As t whether Tamils came from the Sanatana Dharma people or vice versa, it is difficult t postulate.

I am providing an abstract from one theory on this.

Abstract

Can Sankam corpus, the ancient extant Dravidian literature, be a source to identify the language of the Indus script; a collateral evidence to estimate the ethno-linguistic composition of Indus Civilization? I seek to answer this question in affirmative.

I have located a group of place names in the Indus –Harappan geographies (modern Pakistan and adjoining regions), which I choose to call as “Korkay, Vanji, Tondi Complex.” This ‘complex’ contains perfect parallels to “Korkai-Vanji-Tondi” and many other geographical names and anthroponyms attested in Sankam Tamil texts.

I propose that these identical name-heritage complexes of the north-western geographies and the extreme south provide reliable markers for the probable migration of Dravidians following the collapse of Indus Valley Civilization. I call in the evidence of “bone-eating camel” described in Akananooru as a testimony for the earlier presence of Dravidians in the north-western geographies (particularly Gujarat).

And, I conclude that the Sankam corpus in part represents the ‘carried forward memories’ of a remote past, the coordinates of which can be traced back to the Indus Valley Civilization and late Harappan cultures and relevant geographies.’

http://new.modernrationalist.com/2013/07/tamil-indus-korkayvanjitondiin-the-north-west-and-a-bone-eating-camel-in-the-cankam-text/

My view is that there were two cultures, Tamil and Sanatana Dharma coexisting , thugh slightly different in their approach to Life.

That these two acknowledge their differences yet respected each other i a great lesson for us.

References and citations.

https://tamilvaralaru.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/%E0%AE%9A%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%A8%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%A4%E0%AF%81%E0%AE%B5%E0%AF%86%E0%AE%B3%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%AF%E0%AE%BF%E0%AE%B2%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%8A%E0%AE%B0%E0%AF%8D%E0%AE%95%E0%AE%B3%E0%AF%8D-%E0%AE%A4/

http://new.modernrationalist.com/2013/07/tamil-indus-korkayvanjitondiin-the-north-west-and-a-bone-eating-camel-in-the-cankam-text/

https://ramanan50.wordpress.com/2016/10/27/two-tamil-empires-in-india-northwest-south-india-missing-history/

 

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