‘Thaali’ Mangal Sutra’ Not A Part OF Vedic Marriage


I have posted some articles on the Samskaras or the Rites of The Hindus and on Hindu marriages.

Yesterday, my brother’s daughter posted a message in Facebook asking me to write on ‘Thaali, Metti’ and their significance in Hindu marriages,

Thali in Tamil and Mangal Sutra in Hindi has no place in Vedic marraiges.

In Vedic marriages marriage has two names Panigrahana and Kanyadaan, handing over and Gifting away the daughter.

Thali
Mangal Sutra,Thaali

The steps in the Vedic Marriages are.

  • Vara Satkaarah – Reception of the bridegroom and his kinsmen at the entrance gate of the wedding hall where the officiating priest chants a few mantras and the bride’s mother blesses the groom with rice and trefoil and applies tilak of vermilion and turmeric powder.
    • Madhuparka Ceremony – Reception of the bridegroom at the altar and bestowing of presents by the bride’s father.
    • Kanya Dan – The bride’s father gives away his daughter to the groom amidst the chanting of sacred mantras.
    • Vivah-Homa – The sacred fire ceremony ascertaining that all auspicious undertakings are begun in an atmosphere of purity and spirituality.
    • Pani-Grahan – The groom takes the right hand of the bride in his left hand and accepts her as his lawfully wedded wife.
    • Pratigna-Karan – The couple walk round the fire, the bride leading, and take solemn vows of loyalty, steadfast love and life-long fidelity to each other.
    • Shila Arohan – The mother of the bride assists her to step onto a stone slab and counsels her to prepare herself for a new life.
    • Laja-Homah Puffed rice offered as oblations into the sacred fire by the bride while keeping the palms of her hands over those of the groom.
    • Parikrama or Pradakshina or Mangal Fera – The couple circles the sacred fire seven times. This aspect of the ceremony legalizes the marriage according to the Hindu Marriage Act as well custom.
    • Saptapadi – Marriage knot symbolized by tying one end of the groom’s scarf with the bride’s dress. Then they take seven steps representing nourishment, strength, prosperity, happiness, progeny, long life and harmony and understanding, respectively.
    • Abhishek – Sprinkling of water, meditating on the sun and the pole star.
    • Anna Praashan – The couple make food offerings into the fire then feed a morsel of food to each other expressing mutual love and affection.
    • Aashirvadah – Benediction by the elders.

The practice of wearing Thaali is from the Tamil Dravidian Culture.

Vedic Marriages are complete with Panigrahana, Kanyadaan and Saptapathi.

Sage Viswamitra’s descendants ,banished to the South(Dravida) mingled with the Tamils and sage Apasthamba included this procedure in Vedic Marriages.

In fact a Neckband was worn by Men to indicate that they are married and women Metti, an ornament around the third toe of the Foot.

Source.History of Tamils by PT Srinivasa Iyengar

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15 thoughts on “‘Thaali’ Mangal Sutra’ Not A Part OF Vedic Marriage

  1. Thanks Sir,
    Please check and reply for my comments regarding the exact rules and regulations to be followed with respect to
    “Thaali tying is not in the Shastras”
    ,”Removal of a thaali for a widow which the Shastras did not specify and clandestinely dropping it into milk !”
    ” Neckband for men and metti for women according to Shastras”
    “Rituals changed to neckband and Metti all together along with Kumkum,bangles and flowers dumped on the bride to be appropriately removed which need to be removed from the disobedient widow who did not sit on the funeral pyre
    as soon as the husband departs with all these objects leaving her a amangali”
    [ Please Refer,kamakoti.org-Jagadguru’s discourses,Madras-Volume II[1957-1960]

    HENCE FORTH WE DO NOT HAVE TO LOOK TOO FAR,SIR-WE HAVE A WEBSITE WHICH SAYS IT ALL’
    I think all these practices of thaali arukkarathu,tholukku podavai,kunkumam maaykarathu,poovai pichu podarathu,MOOKUTHI,KAADANI has been concocted ONLY to punish the sinning Widows who in the pasty after sati was abolished , at least tonsured their heads and hid like a rat but have dared to LIVE?
    kamakoti.org has answers to all my questions.Thank you.
    KAMAKOTI.ORG-KANCHI PEETAM HAS PUT DOWN THE CONSTITUITION RULES TO BE FOLLOWED-SOME EXCERPTS
    Vyasa and Vedic Religion
    Sage Vyasa is known as Veda Vyasa, as he classified and compiled together, the vast body of Vedas or mantras then existing. He classified the Vedas in four, namely Rig, Yajur, Sama and Atharvana and taught them respectively to four great Rishis � Sumantu, Vaisampayane, Jaimini and Paila. Mantras are present around us as sound waves, and they are without beginning or end. As a radio set picks up a broadcast sound, so also these great Rishis, by their yogic power, were able to comprehend and master these sound waves vibrating around them. One meaning of the word Rishi is that person who has seen the mantras. (Rishayo mantra-drashtaarah) Yogic power endowed them with spiritual eyes with which they saw and registered in their minds the forms of these mantras, even as Arjuna was able to see before him the Viswaroopa of the Lord The Vedas have thus come down to us in their original form by the process of oral transmission from Guru to be Sishya. The Vedas have to be learnt by competent persons in an attitude of devotion, and with due observances of austerities and preserved for posterity.

    Sage Vyasa also composed the 18 Puranas, which contain the purport of the Vedas and asked Soota, a sage revered for his knowledge and devotion, to teach them to the world. The next great service that Sri Vyasa did was to write a compendium of the truth of the Vedas in aphoristic from known as Brahma Sutras. The Brahma Sutras were interpreted by the great Acharyas, who came later, in their commentaries or Bhashyas. The commentaries most widely read are those of Sri Adi Sankara, Sri Ramanuja, and Sri Madhwa. Whatever doctrinal differences may have arisen in later times, we should not forget that the authority or the source of these commentaries is the Brahma Sutras of Sri Veda Vyasa. India has evoked the esteem and admiration of other countries for this remarkable achievement in the realm of spiritual culture and metaphysical thinking. It is our duty to adore the great Sage Vyasa, who has made available to us the Vedas and remember with gratitude the great Rishis who preserved them and passed them on to posterity in their original purity by this process of oral transmission.
    In addition to the Vedas, we have the body of Dharma Sutras which tell us what we should do and should not do, to qualify ourselves for the study of the Vedas and which tell us how to practise our religion. They are also known as the Smritis and are associated with the names of the great Rishis like Parasara, Yaajnavalkya, Manu and others. Compendiums of these Smritis known as Dharma-sastra-nibandhanam have been written by later authors. In the North the most popular Nibandhanam is the one written by Kasinath Upadhyaya, while in the South, it is that written by Vaidyanatha Dikshitar. The Vaidyanatha Dikshiteeyam is common to both Vaishnavites and Saivites. Thus the Vedas and the Dharma Sastras are the foundation of our religion.

    The Official Web Site of the Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham
    Kamakoti.org
    JAGADGURU’S Madras Discourses
    (1957-1960)
    Part II
    Acharya’s call-Part II

    The Official Web Site of the Shri Kanchi Kamakoti Peetham
    Kamakoti.org
    JAGADGURU’S Madras Discourses
    (1957-1960)
    Part II
    Acharya’s call-Part II
    In the circumstances, it is worth pondering why our Vedas and Sastras prescribed so many strict codes of personal conduct and religious ceremonies.
    Let us take the institution of marriage. No other religion has insisted on post-puberty marriage as Hinduism. Even when custom did not insist on post puberty marriage, there is restriction in the freedom of the movement of unmarried girls, who have attained puberty. There was the practice of women immolating themselves on the funeral pyre of their husbands. Rajput ladies threw themselves into the fire when they found that the fortune of war was favoring the foreign enemies. Sita preserved her life in captivity; but ordered a fire to be lit for immolating herself when she found that Sri Rama would not accept her as a result of her captivity. Even in the present times, when Sati has been abolished statutorily, we read in the newspapers stray cases of Sati occurring in North India. Why should there be all these restrictions and hardships in the name of religion? The answer is that to the extent we make sacrifices in performing acts which we sincerely believe to be good, to that extent will our soul or atma get elevated. Even acts done in ignorance, but with faith, will produce spiritual reward. The moment we begin to question why a particular religious practice should be observed, the moment we are beginning to lose faith or bhakti.-
    In other religions, marriage is a contract by which the contracting parties pledge to be faithful to each other during the period of the contract. Both parties are free to obtain divorce. A widow is also free to marry again.
    Thus, marriage in such societies is an institution to get over social complications and also to keep sex life within bounds. In Hinduism, on the other hand, marriage is a sacrament intended for the elevation of the soul. So far as men are concerned, marriage is intended to restrict and regulate their physical desires. For their spiritual realization, man must seek and obtain a preceptor (guru). But so far as women are concerned marriage is both a regulator of physical desires and a means for spiritual elevation. By the sacred ties of marriage, a woman surrenders herself completely to her husband and in serving him she serves God. In fact, she regards her husband as God. There are numerous stories to illustrate this principle. As novels reflect the spirit of the times, these puranic stories reflect the ideals behind the social and religious practices of our ancients. A woman who has dedicated her body completely to her husband in the firm faith that he is God, finds no use for it at the death of her husband. That is the principle behind the practice of sati. Marriage is the upaakarma, initiation into spiritual life, for a girl. For widows who cannot sacrifice themselves on the funeral pyre of their husbands, because they have certain duties to discharge, like the care and bringing up of young children, certain codes, known as Vidhava Dharma, have been prescribed.
    I like the chaste faithful men in our puranas,revered,intelligent,given the title of Gurus and Sages. AS WELL AS SOME OF THE CHASTE,WOMEN
    SAGE MAUDGALYA
    SAGE VYASA WITH HIS 2 STEP SISTERS IN LAW AND THEIR MAID-AMBIKA,AMBALIKA AND PARISHRAMI
    SAGE PARASARA
    GURU BRAHASPATHI-TARA AND MAMATHA STORIES
    DEVARS INDRAN AND CHANDRAN
    SHATARUPA AND BRAHMA
    SAGE GAUTAMA WITH A DEER!!!
    kING sHANTANU AND SATYAVATHI-A FATHER WHOSE LUST TAKES OVER HIS LOVE AND DUTY TOWARDS HIS SON
    DHRITARASHTRA WITH GANDARIS MAID
    NALAAYINI,WHO TAKES HER HUSBAND TO A WHORE HOUSE-DID SHE WANT HIM CONTRACT SOME DISEASE OR WHAT?-IS SHE A GREAT DEVATHA TO BE FOLLOWED?WHY HAVENT WE BUILT A TEMPLE FOR HER AND WORSHIPPED AND FOLLOWED HER??
    ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE PURE AND CHASTE.
    I KNOW AS YOU ALREADY TOLD ME
    “‘SOME RULES IN THE PREVIOUS YUGAS WERE DIFFERENT,SOME STILL WORK”
    wHY DONT YOU JUST SAY
    “Yes,the shastras,puranas,mutt heads and smritis should be followed
    as and when convenient and necessary as far as they make Women objects or dolls ?????

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  2. Please note that I am quoting purely from your Blog and replies to you Blogs Sir.
    [1] [Sage Viswamitra’s descendants ,banished to the South(Dravida) mingled with the Tamils and sage Apasthamba included this procedure in Vedic Marriages.
    In fact a NECKBAND was worn by Men to indicate that they are married and women Metti, an ornament around the third toe of the Foot.
    Now the 21st century woman wears both the Neck band and the metti-There is no way a ubnsuspecting girl would know if the boy she meets is married or not.-GOOD
    [2] “‘Thaali’ OR Mangal Sutra’ Not A Part OF Vedic Marriage”-Title of this article!
    [3] But all women wear the thaali as part of the Dravidian culture.—Okay Sir But I find even the North Indian women wear a “Mangal Sutraa”
    [4] Regarding the “Thali” it is the socialistic development symbolizing a lady is already married introduced to protect the married women from male atrocities.–BUT we find the presence of Thaali in the Harischandra Puraana so it part of the Sanadana Dharma-GOOD
    [5] When a man sees a woman with a Thaali his mind goes like this,’Oh this one is married Let us not have bad thoughts AND effect male atrocities”
    What should a Unmarried girl do to protect herself from “Male Atrocities?”
    The Exalted Widows have a advantage-Hopefully “Male atrocities are not effected on a Widow who follows the rules of the game- No Sindoor, Metti,Bindi, or Kaajal,No bangles,No Thaali,No Flowers,subdued or white Clothes .Only the shaven head is missing A La Persis Khambatta!
    [6] ” What is the idea of Branding a unsuspecting happy girl into a “THEERGA SUMANGALI”?
    Does Mankind understand that every “Theerga Sumangali” lives in the fear of becoming a “Theerga Amangali every day?” That is the reason you see them praying to their Thaaali every morning as soon as they get up,Adorning Flowers,Kumkumam etc. I know they do it because they are allowed to by mankind too.
    Like “KR Vijaya of “Theerga Sumangalai” every Sumngali woman also prays that she leave this ethereal world before her husband so that she is given a decent Funeral!
    “Why do we not go back to the Men-Neck- Band AND Women-Metti WEDDING Ritual Business as of yore? Then Strip the Amangali of her Metti and the Amangalan of his Neck Band when the Spouse dies and drop it carefully into a vessel of Milk.?-Does this sound logical?
    [6] I may sound cynical or non ritualistic but I only want to know why we have twisted some of our rituals conveniently to insult only a bereaved woman???
    SIR, I am still awaiting a logical explanation from you.The more I read about our rituals I am only confused.
    a]Please let me know the correct rituals for every occasion put forward by our forefathers and how we should follow them.Can we twist the Ritual to give The Man the advantage of walking around without a neckband after his marriage and dump it along with the metti on his poor unsuspecting Wife?
    b] Should we follow the Vedic Rituals of Yore or the rituals put forward by our intelligent caring Society?
    c] Why did we stop the custom of “SATI”?
    Is it prescribed by our Vedas?
    If it is, is it not against the Sanadana Dharma to stop the Practice
    d]Where are these chapters prescribing Rituals and Customs-Sati-Tying a tHaali,Pulling out a widow’s thaali and making a pal paayasam of it? Tonsuring her hair as it was followed for so many decades if not centuries?
    I am sure there is a Oral or Written constituiton of these ,because we know that the respected seers and Mutt heads have been advocating these customs.
    Awaiting a reply from your side dsir,
    Visalakshi

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  3. Your right Sir. One more ritual is done before Panigrahana. That is Kanya Vara Nireekshana and Jeera Ghuda Dhare. This aspects is observed as the Muhurtha where in Bride and the Groom are placed on either side of an “Antharapata”. (As per good old days this is the first time they see each other). Amid chanting of Choornika and at the right “Murhoortha” the antarapata is removed and the bride and groom offer the a mixture of Jeera and Ghuda (jaggery) on to the head of each other and they are asked to see into each other eyes as the “Netronmilana”. This is the auspicious time that is observed in the vedic marriages.
    Regarding the “Thali” it is the socialistic development symbolizing a lady is already married introduced to protect the married women from male atrocities.
    However in Sathya Harishchandra episode the Thali incidence occurs which might give a thought that Thali is not a later addition in the marriage ritual.

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    1. Thaali being present during Harischandra is yet another pointer to Sananatana Dharma being present in the South before it was recoreded in the North of Vindhyas.

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    2. it is amusing that a mere thaali will stop atrocities.What about unmarried women and attractive widows in spite of their shaved head and removal of everything.I wish there is some logic in the thaali logic and whether it came from the Vedas,The MGrrreat manu or if and when convenient rituals like a Experienced[!] widow quietly removing a recently widow’s thaali and dropping it in Milk!!!

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