Posts Tagged ‘Tamil Nadu’

Chambers Of The Heart Temple Hrudayaleswarar For Chest Problems

In Hinduism on August 16, 2014 at 20:19

There is a temple which is believed to cure Heart  problems,Lung Diseases, Asthma and Chronic Bronchitis.


Here the inner roof of the temple is designed resembling the four chambers of the Heart.


Thee was a Pallava King named Rajasimhan, who built a Temple for Lord Shiva and fixed the Muhurat for the Kumbhabishekam.


The night before the Kumbhabhishekam Lord Shiva is reported to have appeared in the King’s dream and informed him that He could not be present for the consecration ceremony as He had already agreed to be present for a Temple being built by Poosalar.

The King along with his  entourage set forth to find out who could be building a better temple than a King,only to find a poor man sitting under a tree meditating.

On enquiring him , it was known that the poor man was devotee of Lord Shiva, was building a Temple for Him in his heart and fixed the date for consecration, which was the same as fixed by the King.

The King was able to see the Tempe visualised by Poosalar.

He built a Temple on the design of Poosalar and inner roof was designed to resemble the four chambers of the Heart.

The temple dedicated to Lord Shiva is in Thiruninravur, near Chennai.


How to reach.


Tiruninravur is 30 kms from Chennai.

Suburban trains from Chennai central to Arakonam, Tiruvallur, Tiruttani and Kadambattur stop at Tiruninravur.

Share autos, private autos and buses are available to go to the temple.

The temple is within walking distance from the Railway Station.(2Km)

Bus station.Thiruninravur.Buses are available from Chennai.




Sannadhis for the follwong can be found in the temple.

Hrudayaleeswarar(Onwho resides and the Lord in The Heart)
Maragada ambika
Paal vinayagar
Paal Murugar
Maha Vishnu
Subramanya swamy

Thirunindravur, the place where the temple of Hridayaleeswarar is situated is located in the Thiruvallur district of Tamil Nadu near Chennai. The inner roof of the temple is fashioned like that of a heart divided into four compartments probably displaying Poosalaar’s conception. Parvati here is worshipped as Maragathambigai. Poosalaar’s statue is found with folded hands in the shrine of Irudhayaleeeswarar. Irudhayaleeswarar is also worshipped as Manavaleswarar. People with an ailing heart is said to flock to this temple for speedy recovery due to Irudhayaleeswarar’s grace.



Ganesha,Water Changes Colors Keralapuram

In Hinduism on August 14, 2014 at 11:57

I have posted on articles on unique temples.


They are filed under Hinduism.

Ganesha Turns White In Dakshinayana,png

Ganesha Turns White In Dakshinayana,

Ganesha Turns Black during Uttarayana.png

Ganesha Turns Black during Uttarayana.


There is a temple in Tamil Nadu near Nagarcoil,Kanya Kumari District, where the idol of Lord Ganesha changes colors.


This temple is about 15 Km from Nagarcoil.


 Lord Vinayakar’s idol changes its color to black and white once in every six months.

During Utharayan (March-June), the idol is black,

and in Dakshiyana (July-Feb) idol turns to white.  

This temple came to be known as ‘’Miracle Ganesh Temple.


There is a well inside the temple complex and the color of the water too changes every six months. When the idol is white, the water changes to black and vice versa!


The Temple is also dedicated to Lord Shiva.


Temple Legend.

The king, who ruled Keralapuram, went for a pilgrimage to Rameshwaram, a famous shivite temple facing Bay of Bengal. A Ganesh idol is washed over while the king and his men were washing their legs at the Rameshwaram beach. The king then gifts it to his Rameshwaram counterpart ‘’Sethu Mannan’’.  Sethu Mannan was overwhelmed by the love and affection, however he returns the gift back to the Keralapuram King. It was his opinion and belief that the finder should have it and it was the right thing to do. Along with the idol, the Rameshwaram King gifts another Huge Emerald Idol. However, the Mogul later looted the emerald idol during their invasion. They could not take the idol with them, it was stuck to the ground.






Vedic Sarasvathi Valley Culture From Dravida South

In Hinduism, India on August 14, 2014 at 10:04

All the cultures  of the world have some sort of records,legends on the Great flood that inundated the world.



These details are found in the Bible, Hinduism,Jewish History and Zend Avesta.


These details are also found among the illiterate ethnic groups in the form of ballads.


Tamil literature deals in detail about the great flood,Kadal Kol.


Tamil Epic, among others, Silappathikaram deals exhastively on his subject


Portions of Tamil Nadu were submerged under the sea including the Then Madurai, the Madurai in Tamil Nadu belongs to a different period.

Bible speaks of One flood.


Considering the historical proof found and the number of references Tamil and Sanskrit references seem to be more authentic and they include the one mentioned in the Bible.


We shall see how these Floods happened and their approximate dates.


“ca. 200,000 to 50,000 BC: evolution of “the Tamilian or Homo Dravida


ca. 200,000 to 100,000 BC: beginnings of the Tamil language,000 BC:



Kumari Kandam civilisation20,000 BC:


A lost Tamil culture of the Easter Island which had an advanced civilisation.


Lemuria submerged6087 BC:


Second Tamil Sangam established by a Pandya king3031 BC:


A Chera prince in his wanderings in the Solomon Islands saw wild sugarcane and started cultivation in Present Tamil nadu.1780 BC:


The Third Tamil Sangam established by a Pandya king7th century BC: Tolkappiyam (the earliest known extant Tamil grammar)



Of the three Floods, the Mahabharata refernce to Chera King ,Udiyan Neduncheralathan having participated in the Mahabharata wa along with Pandya King probably relates to the Second Sangam period as the first Sangam period was wiped out when Lemuria sunk.


This means that the earliest reference to Tamils is from Mahabharata which is dated around 3000 BC.


( However there is enough evidence in the Puranas and the archeological finds in Tamilnadu indicate that the Tamil Culture had thrived during or even before the Vedic, Sarasvati Valley civilization)


The third Sangam was established by a Pandya King and his lineage may be traced back to the Vedic period.


“And, O Yudhishthira, in the country of the Pandyas are the tirthas named Agastya and Varuna! And, O bull among men, there, amongst the Pandavas, is the tirtha called the Kumaris. Listen, O son of Kunti, I shall now describe Tamraparni. In that asylum the gods had undergone penances impelled by the desire of obtaining salvation. In that region also is the lake of Gokarna which is celebrated over the three worlds, hath an abundance of cool waters, and is sacred, auspicious, and capable, O child, of producing great merit. That lake is extremely difficult of access to men of unpurified souls. Mahabharatha 3:88[17]

And similarly, Pandya, who dwelt on the coast-land near the sea, came accompanied by troops of various kinds to Yudhishthira, the king of kings. Mahabharatha 5:19

Steeds that were all of the hue of the Atrusa flower bore a hundred and forty thousand principle car-warriors that followed that Sarangadhwaja, the king of the Pandyas. Mahabharatha 7.23

In return, Malayadhwaja pierced the son of Drona with a barbed arrow. Then Drona’s son, that best of preceptors, smiling the while, struck Pandya with some fierce arrows, capable of penetrating into the very vitals and resembling flames of fire. Mahabharatha 8:20′

Add to this the Bhagavatham stating that the Ancestor of Lord Rama, Satyavrata Manu having migrated to North with two sons to establish a Kingdom in Ayodhya.”


This is a clear indication of the culture from the South moved to North , to Sarasvati Valley and later Indus Valley.


Then there is the Tamil script being found in the Mohenjo-Daro.


One batch of migration from the south took place towards the Sarasvati .


What about the next?


We have references about the Arctic the Home of the Rishis and Vedas, Lemuria and Atlantis being one.


We shall examine in detail




The Oxford History of India, 4th ed. revised by Percival Spear (reprinted Delhi�: OUP, 1974-1998), p.�43.
[2] R.�C. Majumdar, H.�C. Raychaudhuri, Kalikinkar Data, An Advanced History of India (Madras�: Macmillan, 4th ed. 1978).
[3] A.�L. Basham, The Wonder That Was India (Calcutta�: Rupa, 3rd ed. 1981).
[4] K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, A History of South India (New Delhi�: OUP, 4th edition 1975).
[5] K. V. Raman, Excavations at Uraiyur (Tiruchirapalli) 1965-69 (Madras�: University of Madras, 1988).
[6] K.�V. Soundara Rajan, Kaveripattinam Excavations 1963-73 (New Delhi�: Archaeological Survey of India, 1994).
[7] See The Ancient Port of Arikamedu�New Excavations and Researches 1989-1992, vol. 1, ed. Vimala Begley (Pondicherry�: �cole Fran�aise d�Extr�me-Orient, 1996).
[8] As reported in The New Indian Express (Coimbatore edition), 12 April 2000. The occasion was a debate on �saffronization of the education system,� and the full first part of the quotation is�: �The RSS has gone to the extent of saying that Dravidian civilization is part of Hinduism….�
[9] For a good overview of the archaeological picture of ancient South India, see K.�V. Raman, �Material Culture of South India as Revealed in Archaeological Excavations,� in The Dawn of Indian Civilization (Up To c.�600�BC), ed. G.�C. Pande (Delhi�: Centre for Studies in Civilizations, 1999), p. 531-546.
[10] K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, A History of South India, p. 84.
[11] Uttankita Sanskrit Vidya Aranya Epigraphs vol. II, Prakrit and Sanskrit Epigraphs 257 BC to 320 AD, ed. K.�G. Krishnan (Mysore�: Uttankita Vidya Aranya Trust, 1989), p.�16 ff, 42 ff.
[12] Ibid., p. 151 ff.
[13] R. Nagaswamy, Art and Culture of Tamil Nadu (New Delhi�: Sundeep Prakashan, 1980), p. 23.
[14] B. Narasimhaiah, Neolithic and Megalithic Cultures in Tamil Nadu (Delhi�: Sundeep Prakashan, 1980), p.�211�; also in Bridget and Raymond Allchin, The Rise of Civilization in India and Pakistan (New Delhi�: Cambridge University Press, 1996), p. 331.
[15] B. Narasimhaiah, Neolithic and Megalithic Cultures in Tamil Nadu, p. 203.
[16] I.�K. Sarma, Religion in Art and Historical Archaeology of South India (Madras�: University of Madras, 1987), p.�33.
[17] K.�V. Raman, Sakti Cult in Tamil Nadu�a Historical Perspective (paper presented at a seminar on Sakti Cult, 9th session of the Indian Art History Congress at Hyderabad, in November 2000�; in press).
[18] William A. Noble, �Nilgiris Prehistoric Remains� in Blue Mountains, ed. Paul Hockings (Delhi�: OUP, 1989), p.�116.
[19]Bridget and Raymond Allchin, The Rise of Civilization in India and Pakistan, p.339-340.
[20] I.�K. Sarma, Religion in Art and Historical Archaeology of South India, p. 35.
[21] Ibid. , p. 34.
[22] K.�V. Raman, Excavations at Uraiyur, p.�84.
[23] K.�V. Raman, Sakti Cult in Tamil Nadu.
[24] K.�V. Soundara Rajan, Kaveripattinam Excavations 1963-73, p. 111-112.
[25] Iravatham Mahadevan, �Pottery Inscriptions in Brahmi and Tamil-Brahmi� in The Ancient Port of Arikamedu, p. 295-296.
[26] K. V. Raman, �A Note on the Square Copper Coin from Arikamedu� in The Ancient Port of Arikamedu, p. 391-392.
[27] R. Krishnamurthy, Sangam Age Tamil Coins (Chennai�: Garnet Publications, 1997). The following examples are drawn from this book.
[28] K. V. Raman, �Archaeological Excavations in Kanchipuram�, in Tamil Civilization, vol. 5, N�1 & 2, p.�70-71.
[29] R. Krishnamurthy, Sangam Age Tamil Coins, p. 26.
[30] Ibid., p. 46-47, etc.
[31] Two important studies in this respect are�: Savita Sharma, Early Indian Symbols (Delhi�: Agam Kala Prakashan, 1990) and H. Sarkar & B.�M. Pande, Symbols and Graphic Representations in Indian Inscriptions(New Delhi�: Aryan Books International, 1999).
[32] K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, A History of South India, p. 130.
[33] N. Raghunathan, Six Long Poems from Sanham Tamil (reprint Chennai�: International Institute of Tamil Studies, 1997), p.�2, 10.
[34] K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, A History of South India, p. 130.
[35] Tolkappiyam Marabus 71, 72, 77, 81, quoted by S. Vaiyapuri Pillai in Life of Ancient Tamils.
[36] Tolkappiyam,Porul 166, 176, quoted by K.�V. Sarma, �Spread of Vedic Culture in Ancient South India� in The Adyar Library Bulletin, 1983, 43:1, p.�5.
[37] K.�V. Raman, Sakti Cult in Tamil Nadu.
[38] Paripadal, 8.
[39] Paripadal, 3, 9, etc..
[40] Purananuru, 2, 93, etc. See also invocatory verse.
[41]The last three references are quoted by K.�V. Sarma in �Spread of Vedic Culture in Ancient South India,� p. 5 & 8.
[42] Quoted by K.�V. Sarma in �Spread of Vedic Culture in Ancient South India,� p. 8.
[43] Purananuru, 17 as translated in Tamil Poetry Through the Ages, vol. I, Ettuttokai: the Eight Anthologies, ed. Shu Hikosaka and G. John Samuel (Chennai�: Institute of Asian Studies, 1997), p. 311.
44] Tiruvalluvar, The Kural, translated by P.�S. Sundaram (New Delhi�: Penguin, 1990), p.�19.
[45] For more details on Tiruvalluvar�s indebtedness to Sanskrit texts, see V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar�s study of the Kural, as quoted by P.�T. Srinivasa Iyengar in History of the Tamils (Madras�: reprinted Asian Educational Services, 1995), p. 589-595.
[46] V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar, Cilappatikaram (Madras�: 1939, reprinted Chennai�: International Institute of Tamil Studies, 1997), p.�57,
[47] R. Nagaswamy, Art and Culture of Tamil Nadu, p. 7.
[48] P. S. Subrahmanya Sastri, An Enquiry into the Relationship of Sanskrit and Tamil (Trivandrum�: University of Travancore, 1946), chapter 3.
[49] See for instance�: K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, �Sanskrit Elements in Early Tamil Literature,� in Essays in Indian Art, Religion and Society, ed. Krishna Mohan Shrimali (New Delhi�: Munshiram Manoharlal Publishers Pvt. Ltd., 1987)�; K.�V. Sarma, �Spread of Vedic Culture in Ancient South India� in The Adyar Library Bulletin, 1983, 43:1�; Rangarajan, �Aryan Dravidian Racial Dispute from the Point of View of Sangam Literature,� inThe Aryan Problem, eds. S.�B. Deo & Suryanath Kamath (Pune�: Bharatiya Itihasa Sankalana Samiti, 1993), p. 81-83.
[50] K. V. Raman, �Religious Inheritance of the Pandyas,� in Sree Meenakshi Koil Souvenir (Madurai, n.d.), p.�168.
[51] Ibid., p.�168-170.
[52] V. R. Ramachandra Dikshitar, Cilappatikaram, p.�53.
[53] Ibid., p.�58.
[54] John Ralston Marr, The Eight AnthologiesA Study in Early Tamil Literature (Madras�: Institute of Asian Studies, 1985), p.�vii.
[55] K.�A. Nilakanta Sastri, �Sanskrit Elements in Early Tamil Literature,� p. 45 (emphasis mine).
[56] John R. Marr, �The Early Dravidians,� in A Cultural History of India, ed. A.�L. Basham (Delhi�: OUP, 1983), p.�34.
[57] Kamil Zvelebil, The Smile of Murugan�: On Tamil Literature of South India (Leiden�: E.�J. Brill, 1973), p.�20, quoted in Ganapathy Subbiah, Roots of Tamil Religious Thought (Pondicherry�: Pondicherry Institute of Linguistics and Culture, 1991), p.6.
[58] Ibid.
[59] M.�G.�S. Narayanan, �The Vedic-Puranic-Shastraic Element in Tamil Sangam Society and Culture,� in Essays in Indian Art, Religion and Society, p. 128.
[60] Ibid., p. 139.
[61] N. Raghunathan, Six Long Poems from Sanham Tamil, p. 32.
[62]Ganapathy Subbiah, Roots of Tamil Religious Thought, p. 5.
[63] N. Subrahmanian, The Tamils�Their History, Culture and Civilization(Madras� Institute of Asian Studies, 1996), p. 118.
[64] Ganapathy Subbiah, Roots of Tamil Religious Thought, p. 160.
[65] Swami Vivekananda, �Reply to the Madras Address,� The Complete Works of Swami Vivekananda (Advaita Ashrama, 1948), p. 278.



Alien Evidence Mahabalipuram India

In Astrophysics on July 29, 2014 at 07:45

The rock carvings on Mahabalipuram in Tamil Nadu is reported to have been made by Mahendra Varma Pallava of the Pallava Dynasty and this was continued by

his son Narasimha Pallava.( 7 and 8th Century AD)


There are some interesting features that need explanation as they bear a striking resemblance to our conceptions of Space Travel,UFO and Aliens.


A rocket space craft at the center of the tower.Mahabalipuram India.jpg

A Rocket spacecraft, with a wide base and an a sharp aerodynamic top stands erect on the temple tower. Notice the similarity of the design to our modern day rockets sent into space. Remember that these carvings were done 1200 years ago, although we know that the first rocket spacecraft was launched only in 1957.


A closeup of a fire breathing lion's face - Do you see two astronauts facing each other?jpg

A closeup of a fire breathing lion’s face – Do you see two astronauts facing each other? Let us ignore the fire and look closely at the face of the lion. Is it a face of the lion, or do you see two people facing each other? These two humanoids are wearing helmets and are enclosed tightly in a pod. Their facial features are not visible, because they would be wearing glass visers, similar to a modern day astronaut. They also wear a complete body suit which has 2 small projections resembling pincers.

A modern day astronaut - The visor would conceal his face, just as seen in the carvings.jpg

A modern day astronaut – The visor would conceal his face, just as seen in the carvings Take a look at the modern day astronaut’s visor. If a modern day sculptor were to carve this, how would he show the facial features?


Overworking imagination or are we missing something?


Check out for more.



Tamil Nadu Was Not The Whole Tamil Kingdom Sakat Dvipa

In Tamils on July 27, 2014 at 19:28

It is an accepted but incorrect history that the Present day Tamil Nadu was inhabited by the three Dynasties of Tamil Kings, Chera ,Chola and Pandyas.


There is sufficient eveidence in the Epics,Ramayana and Mahabharata that the area of the Tamils as much more than the present Tamil Nadu.


Lemuria ith Bathymetric Studies

Kumari Kandam Bathymetric studies. Image Credit.http://kumari-kandam.blogspot.in/


While people give much credence to the names of kings mentioned in Tamil Sangam literature, the same attention has not been paid to the geographical description found therein.


Lets us take the description of the Five Divisions of Land according to Tholkappiyama nd other Grammatical works.



The land mass here the Tamils lived as divided and named into Five distinct geographical entities.


1.Kurinji-Hilly Terrain.



4.Neydal-Seashore and

5.Palai-Desert Region.


One can n find these five regions is the present Tamil Nadu as it is to-day.


The present conception of Lemuria or Kumari Kandam might explain this phenomena.


This was a large landmass that got submerged in, possibly a tsunami.


View. 1.

There was a mountain chain  south of the Tamraparani River,which was an extension of the Wastern ghats.


It as submerged in the sea.


That as called the Malaya Parvatha and there are references to it in the Mahbharata and Ramayana.


There was a king called Malayathvaja, whose daughter as Meenakshi and legend has it that she married Lord Shiva.


That is now being called a Madurai , which is erroneous.


The Madurai here Malayathaja ruled as The Madurai(South Madurai) which submerged.


This continuation of the Western Ghats , Malaya Parvatha is called Sakatdvipa.


One Sarangathdja fought with Asathama, after Drona as killed, in the Mahabharata War.


There are refernces to the Pandyas being adorned with Sandalood paste obtained from the Malayamarutha.(Raja Suya Yaga, Mahabharata)


This Sakat Dvipa resembled the ears of a Hare and it as described as hanging from the Bharatavarsha(Mahabharrata).


This Malayaparvatham was reported South of Tamraparani,currently in Tirunelveli District.


Silappathikaram also mentions that the sandalwood paste as from the forests where the Western Ghats and the Malaya Parvata meet.


Kumari Kandam ith Cities.jpg

Kumari Kandam ith Cities.



Sakatdvipa was 25,600,000 mile


The 49 lands

This land was divided into 49 Naadu, or territories (probably of the size of small districts) between Kumari river and Pahruli / Prahuli / Pakruli river. These are named as seven coconut territories (Ezhu Tenga Natu), seven Madurai territories (Ezhu Maturai Natu), seven old sandy territories (Ezhu Mun-palai Natu), seven new sandy territories (Ezhu Pin-palai Natu), seven mountain territories (Ezhu Kunra Natu), seven eastern coastal territories (Ezhu Kuna Karai Natu) and seven dwarf-palm territories (Ezhu Kurum Panai Natu). All these lands, together with the many-mountained land that began with Kumari-Kollam, with forests and habitations, were submerged by the sea.

Two of these submerged Nadus or territories of Kumari Kandam were supposedly parts of present-day Kollam and Kanyakumari districts.

The above description match perfectly with  Kumari Kandam map developed using bathymetry studies since it shows the western extent of Kumari Kandam along the coast of Kerala where lies Kollam.

இன்றைக்கு மஹேந்திர மலை என்பது திருக்குறுங்குடி என்னும் வைணவ திவ்விய தேசத்தில் இருக்கிறது. இங்கிருந்துதான் அனுமன் இலங்கைக்குத் தாவிச் சென்றிருக்கிறான். இந்தப் பகுதியைப் பற்றிச் சொல்வதற்கு முன்னாலேயே, தாமிரபரணி ஆற்றைக் கடந்தபின் மலய பர்வதத்தின் தொடர்ச்சியாக சொல்லப்பட்ட இடத்தில் கவாடபுரம் என்னும் பாண்டியன் தலைநகரைப் பற்றி சுக்ரீவன் சொல்கிறான். இது தென்கடலுடன் இணையும் மேற்குத் தொடர்ச்சி மலைப் பகுதியாகும். இந்தப் பகுதியைப் பற்றிய சுவையான தகவல்களை அடியார்க்கு நல்லார் மூலம் நாம் அறிகிறோம்.
சிலப்பதிக்கார உரையில் (8-1), ஏழேழ் நாற்பத்தொன்பது நாடுகள் பற்றி அவர் கூறியதை முந்தின பகுதியில் கண்டோம். அவை எல்லாம் கடலுக்குல் அமிழ்ந்தன என்கிறார். அவற்றுடன் கடலுக்குள் அமிழ்ந்த பிற பகுதிகளில்,
’குமரி கொல்லம் முதலிய பன்மலை நாடும், காடும், நதியும், பதியும்,
தட நீர்க் குமரி வட பெருங்கோட்டின்காறும் கடல் கொண்டு அழிதலால்’ என்கிறார்.
குமரி கொல்லம் முதலிய பன் மலை நாடு என்று சொல்லவே, மலய பர்வதத்தை ஒட்டி அமைந்துள்ள இன்றைய கொல்லம் என்னும் கேரளப் பகுதி பாண்டியன் வசம் அந்நாளில் இருந்திருக்கிறது என்று தெரிகிறது. அந்த இடத்தில் குமரியின் வட பெருங்கோடு இருந்தது என்றும் இதன் மூலம் தெரிகிறது”.
கோடு என்றால் மலைச் சிகரம் என்றும் பொருள். நீர்க்கரை என்றும் ஒரு பொருள் உண்டு. இங்கு குமரி ஆற்றைச் சொலல்வில்லை. ஏனெனில் இதே விளக்க உரையில், முதலிலேயே பஹ்ருளி ஆற்றையும், குமரி ஆற்றையும் சொல்லி அதற்க்கிடையே உள்ள தூரத்தையும் அடியார்க்கு நல்லார் சொல்லி விட்டார். எனவே இங்கு குமரிக் கோடு என்றதும், வட பெருங்கோடு என்றதும்,
குமரி மலைத் தொடரின் வடக்கில் உள்ள மலைச் சிகரமான குமரி என்னும் சிகரம் என்றாகிறது. அது கொல்லத்தை ஒட்டி அமைந்திருக்கிறது. இவை எல்லாம் உண்மையே என்பதை இந்தியப் பெருங்கடலின் அடிவாரத்தைக் காட்டும் படங்களில் காணலாம்.”
So the Tamil Kingdoms referred to included Lemuria and the present Tamil Nadu formed only a Part.
Most interesting fact is that the Sanatana Dharma flourished there and I willl be posting archeological  evidence.




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